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02-25-2017, 04:46 PM
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#1
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TF Site Team
City: Paris,TN
Vessel Name: Slo-Poke
Vessel Model: Jorgensen custom 44
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,749
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Short inside inverter
Went out to check on boat today and noticed I didn't have any 110 volt power . The charger was on in the inverter and I showed having 30 amps from shore power but no 110 at my breaker box . I tracked it down to this connection inside the inverter . Would a butt connector be better here or should I go back with the same ? We were lucky we had no serious fire .
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02-25-2017, 06:28 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
City: Wherever the boat is
Vessel Name: Kismet
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 458
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I don't think the connector is the problem...
Can you explain what you mean by "showed having 30 amps from shore power". You used an ammeter?
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02-25-2017, 07:09 PM
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#3
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TF Site Team
City: Paris,TN
Vessel Name: Slo-Poke
Vessel Model: Jorgensen custom 44
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev_rm
I don't think the connector is the problem...
Can you explain what you mean by "showed having 30 amps from shore power". You used an ammeter?
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xantrex moniter showed 30 amp incoming from shore power . I did not put an ammeter on it . The charger was still working . About a week ago I did a NO NO and used a short extension cord on a ceramic heater for about 3 hrs . After I turned it off I could hardly get the cord unplugged from the heater . I'm thinking this is when this connection inside the inverter started heating up .
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Marty
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02-25-2017, 07:39 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Bayview
Vessel Name: Puffin
Vessel Model: Willard Vega 30
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,444
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I would suggest going back with the same connector. Cut back to clean untarnished wire.
__________________
What kind of boat is that?
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02-25-2017, 07:42 PM
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#5
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TF Site Team
City: Paris,TN
Vessel Name: Slo-Poke
Vessel Model: Jorgensen custom 44
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev_rm
I don't think the connector is the problem...
Can you explain what you mean by "showed having 30 amps from shore power". You used an ammeter?
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I don't think the connector is the problem either . Do you think this type of connector is the best to use here or is something else better ?
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Marty
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02-25-2017, 07:43 PM
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#6
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TF Site Team
City: Paris,TN
Vessel Name: Slo-Poke
Vessel Model: Jorgensen custom 44
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Cofer
I would suggest going back with the same connector. Cut back to clean untarnished wire.
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Thanks . Do you think the heater may have started this problem ?
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Marty
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02-25-2017, 07:45 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: Bayview
Vessel Name: Puffin
Vessel Model: Willard Vega 30
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,444
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The short answer is that unit was designed, tested and UL listed with that connector. Substituting with a different type will probably not improve the performance.
__________________
What kind of boat is that?
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02-25-2017, 07:46 PM
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#8
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Guru
City: Bayview
Vessel Name: Puffin
Vessel Model: Willard Vega 30
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,444
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Yep. Especially since the plug was nearly melted in the cord.
__________________
What kind of boat is that?
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02-26-2017, 06:39 AM
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#9
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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Placing stranded wire under a screw terminal is asking for trouble.
Dip the stranded end into solder (1/4 inch is fine) as you find on most Euro electrical goodies.
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02-26-2017, 06:50 AM
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#10
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Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
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That heat damage may go far up that burned lead.
Connector probably loosened with thermal cycles, probably good to snug it periodically.
And ceramic heaters can have high inrush current. I've got one and don't like using it on the boat for that reason.
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02-26-2017, 07:46 AM
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#11
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Guru
City: North Charleston, SC
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,870
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I think the damage was caused by the screw being slightly loose resulting in resistance and the connection heating up. I would replace the connector with a similar one rated for that current.
I would not dip the wire in solder, just make sure the bare ends are clean and shiny.
BTW: What you have there is not a "short". A "short" would be where the hot conductor touched the neutral or ground conductor. A "short" would trip the breaker or blow the fuse.
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02-26-2017, 08:08 AM
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#12
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,260
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I agree that the most likely problem was a slightly loose connection. I had a similar situation on the D.C. Input of my inverter. Anytime a connection becomes loose it has increased resistance and if it is used heavily it can get really hot. The heat at the connection makes the resistance even higher and eventually it's a runaway situation.
I would replace like with like, strip back the wire until you find good or replace wire as required. Tighten well and check tightness periodically.
If you're interested in covering the stranded wire before its clamped, the best way is with a ferrule. These are cheap and readily available. Unfortunately they require a crimper made for them.
Ken
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02-26-2017, 08:08 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
City: Oakland
Vessel Name: Arcangel
Vessel Model: Buewater 40
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 149
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Using unlisted electric material for an AC load is not a good idea.. You were lucky not caught fire... Always it's good idea keep an eye on AC connectors over the winter. Even with low charge the combination of heat and old plastic it's fatal for connectors.
I always reject the idea install an inverter at "on line" over the main AC line, always prefer put over a sub panel with dedicated AC line. An inverter storage a lot of power on that huge capacitor and can discharge in a second.
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02-26-2017, 08:26 AM
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#14
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TF Site Team
City: Paris,TN
Vessel Name: Slo-Poke
Vessel Model: Jorgensen custom 44
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,749
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Is this just a standard connector that I would get from a home store or is this a marine grade connector? Electricity is by far my weakest point . I can fix this but I want to make sure I'm using the right materials .
__________________
Marty
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02-26-2017, 08:30 AM
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#15
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,186
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Mule
Do you always leave your inverter on when you are plugged into shore power? What brand and size of inverter are you using? PSW or MSW?
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02-26-2017, 08:40 AM
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#16
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TF Site Team
City: Paris,TN
Vessel Name: Slo-Poke
Vessel Model: Jorgensen custom 44
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser
Mule
Do you always leave your inverter on when you are plugged into shore power? What brand and size of inverter are you using? PSW or MSW?
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I'm not at the boat right now but I think it is Freedom inverter/charger 2000 . I leave on for the charger
only .
__________________
Marty
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02-26-2017, 08:59 AM
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#17
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Guru
City: North Charleston, SC
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pack Mule
Is this just a standard connector that I would get from a home store or is this a marine grade connector? Electricity is by far my weakest point . I can fix this but I want to make sure I'm using the right materials .
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I would disconnect it (after noting which wire goes where) and take it to a wholesale electronics distributor (NOT RADIO SHACK). Most cities have one.
They will recognize the connector and either have one in stock or can order one.
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02-26-2017, 09:32 AM
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#18
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Veteran Member
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 38
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If you cannot solder, use a ferrule on the stranded wire. Eurostrips are your best choice. Butt connections are not.
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02-26-2017, 10:14 AM
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#19
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Guru
City: North Vancouver
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,877
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Just curious: doesn't your inverter automatically transfer the inverter loads to shore side or genny power when those power sources are on? Also, isn't it a good idea to turn the inverter "off" when you are away from the boat?
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02-26-2017, 10:27 AM
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#20
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Guru
City: Ashland, MA
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pack Mule
Went out to check on boat today and noticed I didn't have any 110 volt power . The charger was on in the inverter and I showed having 30 amps from shore power but no 110 at my breaker box . I tracked it down to this connection inside the inverter . Would a butt connector be better here or should I go back with the same ? We were lucky we had no serious fire .
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You cannot load an ac power source to the point where there is no voltage but have 30 amps. I don't doubt that something read 30 amperes, maybe a stuck meter. If the 30 amps you read was real, it had to have a source.......from your batteries or the dock power stanchion.
Did you find anything hot? That current will heat wire .... generates 4,600 watts somewhere if from ac line.
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