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Old 02-27-2017, 11:55 AM   #1
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Shore Power Breaker, Boat Side

Just completed an in-water survey for insurance renewal. No issues except: Surveyor notes that the boat is missing a breaker between the shore power inlet and the main panel. Shore power is two (2) 30a 120v feeds.

Surveyor says itís no big deal. Grab a disconnect box with dipole 30a breaker at the friendly big box store and install in line. Sounds easy.

After casting about n the net, all Iím seeing from the box stores is fused disconnects similar to what you see on house air conditioners. Iím not big on fuses, but maybe I need to rethink it. Went to Blue Sea and Iím suddenly into ELCI stuff with galvanic isolators ($$$).

The way my system is physically laid out, the ideal breaker location is in the wall of a dry hanging locker Ė no weather exposure.

An electrician acquaintance says the nomenclature is ď30a 120v dipole breaker disconnect.Ē Iím having no luck with that. Do I have a nomenclature problem or am I chasing a unicorn?

Any thoughts, guidance appreciated.
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Old 02-27-2017, 12:16 PM   #2
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If your power receptacles are more than 10 feet from your panel....then....


It is just a 2 pole 30A breaker that has either 2 flippers connected externally or one flipper and is connected inside.


But you need 2 of them...one for each 30 amp power plug.


One CB gets the hot, one gets the neutral.


If serious...this is what I think you really need...but is pricey and ELCIs are not required for older builds (yet).


https://www.bluesea.com/products/311..._30A_ELCI_Main
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Old 02-27-2017, 12:39 PM   #3
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If you are on a budget print the page psneeld sent and show it to a guy in an electrical supply house , or at Home Cheapo.

Should cost WAY less , but will be in a grey painted box and wont include an operating light, or reverse polarity light , which is probably already on board.
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:27 PM   #4
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Unless you want the GFCI protection (and I wouldn't) then one of these Blue Seas surface mount boxes will work inside- Blue Sea Systems Circuit Breaker Enclosure

Don't install a double pole breaker like the picture shows. Install two single pole breakers, essentially the same thing but without the common trip bar. But this is not weather proof.

Somebody makes an inexpensive outdoor box, but I can't find it. My 2006 Mainship had one near the two shore power cord inlets. It used standard magnetic breakers but had a flexible clear silicone rubber cover over each breaker tab to keep water out. I sold the boat, but if anyone has one, post the manufacturer's name. It is a clean, inexpensive solution for an outdoor breaker box.

David
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:30 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
Unless you want the GFCI protection (and I wouldn't) then one of these Blue Seas surface mount boxes will work inside- Blue Sea Systems Circuit Breaker Enclosure

Don't install a double pole breaker like the picture shows. Install two single pole breakers, essentially the same thing but without the common trip bar. But this is not weather proof.

Somebody makes an inexpensive outdoor box, but I can't find it. My 2006 Mainship had one near the two shore power cord inlets. It used standard magnetic breakers but had a flexible clear silicone rubber cover over each breaker tab to keep water out. I sold the boat, but if anyone has one, post the manufacturer's name. It is a clean, inexpensive solution for an outdoor breaker box.

David
When you say single pole...each one will trip both hot and neutral for each shore power cord?
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:05 PM   #6
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A GE TL240RCU 40 amp outdoor load center will work. Made of steel and tin plated copper buss. And it is compact in size.
This has wire openings on the bottom. You need a GE 2 pole breaker to go in it.
For example here,
https://www.menards.com/main/electri...4431225235.htm
Might be able to view and get one local.

I actually combined the guts from 2 of these into one to handle twin 30 amp AC inputs.
I had to modify the cover by heating with a torch and bumping out the area to match the other side, cut out a space for the breaker handle on the inner panel cover, etc....


Here is a plastic load center, but I would have to examine as not certain myself what it looks like inside.
GE PowerMark Gold 125 Amp 4-Space 8-Circuit Outdoor Main Lug Circuit Breaker Panel-TPL412RP - The Home Depot

Research things like those perhaps.

A 30 amp dual pole GE breaker will disconnect hot and neutral together.
One side gets hot wire, other side gets neutral on the breaker.
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:17 PM   #7
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When you say single pole...each one will trip both hot and neutral for each shore power cord?
No, I was talking about two separate breakers to trip the hot on two separate feeds from shore power. I think that is what the OP was saying.

AFAIK, there is no need to trip both hot and neutral on the incoming shore power feed. Genset/shorepower transfer switches, yes.

David
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
No, I was talking about two separate breakers to trip the hot on two separate feeds from shore power. I think that is what the OP was saying.

AFAIK, there is no need to trip both hot and neutral on the incoming shore power feed. Genset/shorepower transfer switches, yes.

David
Interesting, if not required to break both hot and neutral together on the power coming off the utility grid, then you could use one box with 2 single pole 30 amp breakers.
I just assumed you did so I set mine up that way.

Although it says here
Circuit Breakers
Factory shorepower in older boats too often omitted a circuit breaker. The thinking was that a boat was just another "appliance" plugged into the marina circuit, which was already protected. But faulty marina wiring is too common to entrust your safety to an unknown breaker behind a dock office a quarter of a mile away.

A safe AC system requires an onboard dual-pole breaker.


http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey...shorepower.asp
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:52 PM   #9
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From ABYC it is not mandatory to have a dual pole breaker in the incoming shorepower line, however in that case you mut have a polarity inversion detector.
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:00 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
No, I was talking about two separate breakers to trip the hot on two separate feeds from shore power. I think that is what the OP was saying.

AFAIK, there is no need to trip both hot and neutral on the incoming shore power feed. Genset/shorepower transfer switches, yes.

David
The breaker is supposed to disconnect the hot and the neutral. That's a double pole breaker. If you have two power inlets, you need two double pole breakers. The breakers must be less than ten feet (measured along the cable) from the inlet to meet the ABYC requirements.

If you have any question about this, pay a marine electrician to do the installation. You'll sleep better at night.
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:10 PM   #11
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The breaker is supposed to disconnect the hot and the neutral. That's a double pole breaker. If you have two power inlets, you need two double pole breakers. The breakers must be less than ten feet (measured along the cable) from the inlet to meet the ABYC requirements.

If you have any question about this, pay a marine electrician to do the installation. You'll sleep better at night.
That is the way I did mine. Two double pole 30 amp breakers, one for each incoming shore power line.
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Old 02-27-2017, 08:23 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by sbu22 View Post
Just completed an in-water survey for insurance renewal. No issues except: Surveyor notes that the boat is missing a breaker between the shore power inlet and the main panel. Shore power is two (2) 30a 120v feeds.

Surveyor says itís no big deal. Grab a disconnect box with dipole 30a breaker at the friendly big box store and install in line. Sounds easy.

After casting about n the net, all Iím seeing from the box stores is fused disconnects similar to what you see on house air conditioners. Iím not big on fuses, but maybe I need to rethink it. Went to Blue Sea and Iím suddenly into ELCI stuff with galvanic isolators ($$$).

The way my system is physically laid out, the ideal breaker location is in the wall of a dry hanging locker Ė no weather exposure.

An electrician acquaintance says the nomenclature is ď30a 120v dipole breaker disconnect.Ē Iím having no luck with that. Do I have a nomenclature problem or am I chasing a unicorn?

Any thoughts, guidance appreciated.
The box is 13.74 at Home Depot. You need 2 plus the appropriate double pole 30a breaker.

Square D QO 30 Amp 2-Space 2-Circuit Indoor Main Lug Load Center-QO2L30SCP - The Home Depot

Ken
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:24 AM   #13
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The box is 13.74 at Home Depot. You need 2 plus the appropriate double pole 30a breaker.

Square D QO 30 Amp 2-Space 2-Circuit Indoor Main Lug Load Center-QO2L30SCP - The Home Depot

Ken
Good price.
I did find my box at HDepot which is Nema 3R, rated outdoor raintight, which I wanted that cover mostly I was worried it might get wet.

GE PowerMark Gold 40-Amp 2-Space 4-Circuit Outdoor Single-Phase Main Lug Circuit Breaker Panel-TL240RCUP - The Home Depot

Box size is 7.25 wide X 3.75 deep X 10 tall inches.

Ge General Electric Tl240rcu 7.25 X 3.75 X 10 In 40a Load Center Galanized Steel | What's it worth
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:59 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
No, I was talking about two separate breakers to trip the hot on two separate feeds from shore power. I think that is what the OP was saying.

AFAIK, there is no need to trip both hot and neutral on the incoming shore power feed. Genset/shorepower transfer switches, yes.

David
With 30A 120V services, if you want to be in compliance with the accepted safety standards, the standards the surveyor is surveying to, then the breaker needs to simultaneously interrupt both AC hot (black) and neutral (white).

A Blue Sea 7238 is a standard AC breaker for 30A systems where you're installation is not meeting the 10' of wire rule (between main AC breaker and AC inlet) and the vessel already has a reverse polarity system.

If one is not comfortable with marine AC wiring, and the many nuances of a correct installation, including the isolation of neutrals, on-board, with dual 30A shore power feeds, it would be best to call in a marine electrician..
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Good price.
I did find my box at HDepot which is Nema 3R, rated outdoor raintight, which I wanted that cover mostly I was worried it might get wet.

GE PowerMark Gold 40-Amp 2-Space 4-Circuit Outdoor Single-Phase Main Lug Circuit Breaker Panel-TL240RCUP - The Home Depot

Box size is 7.25 wide X 3.75 deep X 10 tall inches.

Ge General Electric Tl240rcu 7.25 X 3.75 X 10 In 40a Load Center Galanized Steel | What's it worth
The one you found is nice, galvanized and NEMA 3 and still not expensive.

Ken
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:57 AM   #16
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I would go ahead and spend the extra few dollars on a conventional marine panel and breakers. Remember, at some point, the boat will be put up for sale and buyers will be more comfortable with something from a known marine supplier, not something from the home center.
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Old 03-01-2017, 05:34 AM   #17
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Honestly, what is the point of a disconnect, why not just unplug the boat. Is it too hard to unplug the boat? Why a 10 foot rule?
My new marina has twin 30 amp power and a box on their post with 30 amp breaker.
It is a nice looking box, I will see if I can find a manufacturer plate.

My old marina had a post with a 15 amp outlet and no breaker you could easily reach.

I added the load center because of the rule, but such a thing is not necessary. My boat survived almost 45 years without one.
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Old 03-01-2017, 06:10 AM   #18
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Honestly, what is the point of a disconnect, why not just unplug the boat. Is it too hard to unplug the boat? Why a 10 foot rule?
My new marina has twin 30 amp power and a box on their post with 30 amp breaker.
It is a nice looking box, I will see if I can find a manufacturer plate.

My old marina had a post with a 15 amp outlet and no breaker you could easily reach.

I added the load center because of the rule, but such a thing is not necessary. My boat survived almost 45 years without one.
Unplugging under load is a bad practice and one that will shorten the life of your plugs and/result in a potential fire.
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:25 AM   #19
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Unplugging under load is a bad practice and one that will shorten the life of your plugs and/result in a potential fire.
All depends how much load your disconnecting.
I run a fridge and charger all the time, so this is under 3 amps.
I never turn off the disconnect shore power breaker I installed. I just unplug the boat when going somewhere.

If I was running AC or oven, I would before unplugging, toggle off the shore power 4PDT relay to switch over to gen power.
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:39 AM   #20
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Honestly, what is the point of a disconnect, why not just unplug the boat. Is it too hard to unplug the boat? Why a 10 foot rule?
My new marina has twin 30 amp power and a box on their post with 30 amp breaker.
It is a nice looking box, I will see if I can find a manufacturer plate.

My old marina had a post with a 15 amp outlet and no breaker you could easily reach.

I added the load center because of the rule, but such a thing is not necessary. My boat survived almost 45 years without one.
Circuit breakers and fuses are not necessary if you never have an electrical fault. Just like PFDs are not necessary if your boat never sinks or you never fall out of it.

The "ten foot rule" is per ABYC. The cable from the electrical inlet(s) is protected only by the circuit breaker on the dock. It could be defective. You could be using a fifty amp adapter in which case your thirty amp cabling is protected by a fifty amp breaker (not really protected).

Ten feet is really a compromise. Ideally, the main breaker(s) should be located within a few inches of the inlet(s). Ten feet is assumed to be a reasonable risk.

The ABYC has access to records of thousands of fires and other incidents. You and I do not. They are in a position to determine risk. We are not. Think of the ABYC as the building code for boats. They are looking out for our safety.
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