Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-12-2016, 04:55 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Ka_sea_ta's Avatar
 
City: Puget Sound
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ka_sea_ta
Vessel Model: 48 Defever
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 225
Ships station license and operator permit

I've boating in BC waters for just about 40 years. I've been boarded and inspected several times and have never been asked to provide a ships station license or an radio operator permit for the ships VHF. Returning to the US, customs or USCG have never asked if the is a ships station license or a permitted operator on board...I been asked to see my discharge plaque, my customs sticker, boat registration, fishing license, even had my freezer inspected and several other items but never anything about the VHF radio. Is this just another antiquated law. Be honest now how many people have ships station license and are a permitted operator?
__________________
Advertisement

Ka_sea_ta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 04:59 PM   #2
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,156
If you don't have an SSB and are not running commercially, I don't believe you're required to have one for VHF as your boat isn't required to have a VHF radio.

Ted
__________________

__________________
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 05:05 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Ka_sea_ta's Avatar
 
City: Puget Sound
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ka_sea_ta
Vessel Model: 48 Defever
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
If you don't have an SSB and are not running commercially, I don't believe you're required to have one for VHF as your boat isn't required to have a VHF radio.

Ted
That's not the way I read the FCC regs. I was going to apply for an MMSI number and because I take the boat into BC the FCC has to issue the MMSI number I hope I misread or misinterpreted the FCC's requirement.
Ka_sea_ta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 05:07 PM   #4
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
If you don't have an SSB and are not running commercially, I don't believe you're required to have one for VHF as your boat isn't required to have a VHF radio.

Ted
I just went through this in preparation for my trip to BC this summer. from the FCC website. See the last bit. BTW, I think that it is doubtful that someone would ask to see it, but why take the chance?

Quote:
Who Needs a Ship Station License


You do not need a license to operate a marine VHF radio, radar, or EPIRBs aboard voluntary ships operating domestically. The term "voluntary ships" refers to ships that are not required by law to carry a radio. Generally, this term applies to recreation or pleasure craft. The term "voluntary ships" does not apply to the following:
  1. Cargo ships over 300 gross tons navigating in the open sea;
  2. Ships certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry more than 6 passengers for hire in the open sea or tidewaters of the U.S.;
  3. Power driven ships over 20 meters in length on navigable waterways;
  4. Ships of more than 100 gross tons certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry at least one passenger on navigable waterways;
  5. Tow boats of more than 7.8 meters in length on navigable waterways; and,
  6. Uninspected commercial fishing industry vessels required to carry a VHF radio.
  7. Ships required to carry an Automatic Identification System (AIS) transceiver by the U.S. Coast Guard regulations enacted pursuant to the Maritime Transportation Security Act of 2000.

Ships are considered as operating domestically when they do not travel to foreign ports or do not transmit radio communications to foreign stations. Sailing in international waters is permitted, so long as the previous conditions are met. If you travel to a foreign port (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands), a license is required. Additionally, if you travel to a foreign port, you are required to have an operator permit.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 05:13 PM   #5
TF Site Team
 
dwhatty's Avatar
 
City: Home Port: Buck's Harbor, Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: "Emily Anne"
Vessel Model: 2001 Island Gypsy 32 Europa (Hull #146)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,643
Got that license and permit for a planned incursion into Canada this year. Had the same questions, but I got them just the same on the better safe than sorry principle after reading the regs. Didn't make a large dent in the boat wallet relative to other expenses. From what I could gather, from a practical standpoint for a small pleasure boat, the Canadians don't seem to care that much while the US technically might, but probably wouldn't. International treaty thing?
__________________
David Hawkins
Deer Isle, Maine
dwhatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 05:14 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Ka_sea_ta's Avatar
 
City: Puget Sound
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ka_sea_ta
Vessel Model: 48 Defever
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 225
So is this just another way for the government agency to collect revenue? Who enforces this? The Canadians don't to my knowledge, It seems that having a VHF is a safety issue so why try to impose a tax on safety?
Ka_sea_ta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 05:23 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
City: Baltimore, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Starshine
Vessel Model: 1989 Bayliner 3288
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 111
If you travel outside of US waters one needs both a ships license and an operators license.
johnrupp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 05:40 PM   #8
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka_sea_ta View Post
That's not the way I read the FCC regs. I was going to apply for an MMSI number and because I take the boat into BC the FCC has to issue the MMSI number I hope I misread or misinterpreted the FCC's requirement.
That is how I came across the rules as well, I was getting an MMSI and since I would be traveling into BC, I needed the FCC to issue it.

It was a very simple and relatively inexpensive thing to acquire.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 06:04 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
City: Seattle
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Poach
Vessel Model: Sabreline Trawler
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 211
Needed it to get MMSI
Poach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 06:12 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Ka_sea_ta's Avatar
 
City: Puget Sound
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ka_sea_ta
Vessel Model: 48 Defever
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 225
I think that the fees are 215 for the ships license and 60 for the operators permit.... And like I asked before who enforces a US reg in Canada?
Ka_sea_ta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 07:48 PM   #11
Veteran Member
 
Doug's Avatar
 
City: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Timeless
Vessel Model: CHB 34
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 87
The rules for Canadians is similar. We do not need station licenses or operator licenses if our vessel is operated only in Canada. However when travelling to the US we can be asked to produce the licenses.
That was the reason I purchased both. Not a big outlay, the operator license requires passing an exam and then is good for life. A Canadian station license is approximately $40.
Doug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 07:49 PM   #12
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,579
Maybe someone from Canada can help us here, but my understanding is that licensing is required in Canada. Can anyone confirm? I know an FCC license is accepted by other countries to meet their requirements. There might also be treaties about licensing for international voyages.

I think customs and the CG don't ask because they don't care. It's an FCC thing, not theirs.

Also, there are at least three different issues at play here:

1) MMSI with info in the international database. To get your info in this database, you need to get your MMSI through the FCC. Search and rescue might be aided if locals can quickly get your boat info, contact info, EPIRB number, emergency contacts, etc.

2) Ships station license. I'm sure this varies from country to country, but many require that the ships radio station be licensed. An FCC license fulfills the requirement.

3) Radio Operators license. Ditto #2, but this licenses the operator.

Recreational boaters in the US are exempt from #2 and #3, and they can get a free MMSI with data that goes in a US-local database. So all this is no cost for 99% of US boaters.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 07:55 PM   #13
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
The rules for Canadians is similar. We do not need station licenses or operator licenses if our vessel is operated only in Canada. However when travelling to the US we can be asked to produce the licenses.
That was the reason I purchased both. Not a big outlay, the operator license requires passing an exam and then is good for life. A Canadian station license is approximately $40.

Thanks. You answered while I was still formulating the question....

So maybe it's an IMO thing for boats traveling internationally?
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 07:55 PM   #14
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka_sea_ta View Post
That's not the way I read the FCC regs. I was going to apply for an MMSI number and because I take the boat into BC the FCC has to issue the MMSI number I hope I misread or misinterpreted the FCC's requirement.
Sorry, missed the part about traveling abroad. Not required for you in the USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poach View Post
Needed it to get MMSI
A MMSI number for recreational boats doesn't require either licence if the boat isn't required to have the license.

Information is located at BoatUS MMSI

Ted
__________________
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 08:34 PM   #15
Guru
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,172
I considered getting the Ship / Oper license as we do cruise to Canada fairly often.
I never put it high on the to do list as I've never been asked for it in 25+ yrs and have never heard of anyone ever being asked.
My plan - claim ignorance and beg forgiveness

We did have a station license when they were req'd here in the US but don't believe that satisfied international reqmts.

Has anyone here on TF EVER been asked or had to show a license when crossing US / Canadian borders?
__________________
Don
MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 09:25 PM   #16
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,877
Canadian
Used to have a ships license, renewed annually. Roughly 10 yrs ago the annual renewal was discontinued by Transport Canada. It has never again been required, so my ship station is now an unlicensed station. I used to have a "call sign" a short collection of letters and numbers that was impossible to remember. Now my call sign is simply my boat name.
I also have a personal license "ROC-M". This was obtained 25 yrs ago, and the slip of paper it is recorded on has faded and torn and won't likely survive another year, let alone for the life of the license (= my lifetime). This is still technically required, though I have never heard of anyone penalized for its lack.
Nice to know, that in order to volunteer as RCMSAR, the little Fast Rescue Craft boys and girls, ROC-M and PCOC are both mandatory.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 12:04 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
City: PNW
Country: United States
Vessel Name: EXILE
Vessel Model: HANS CHRISTIAN TRAWLER
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 105
You can obtain an MMSI number at no cost thru BoatUS. Purportedly the BoatUS MMSI data base is not shared with the Canadian CG. However, it is my understanding that the BoatUS database IS available to the Canadian CG and should they recieve a distress call with a BoatUS MMSI number that they immediately refer to the BoatUS database to obtain pertinant info. At least that is what I have been led to believe.
-David
petdoc4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 12:16 AM   #18
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 9,937
Have never been asked about them in the US or Canada, but was in Panama.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 08:23 AM   #19
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka_sea_ta View Post
Be honest now how many people have ships station license and are a permitted operator?

I do and I am.

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 08:42 AM   #20
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,579
I have the licenses as well, and got them because of international travel. At the time my understanding of the requirement was to satisfy other countries that required licenses, and an FCC license satisfies that requirement. When I first did it I was heading to the Bahamas and thought/think they require a license, but I never verified that, and was certainly never asked for one when there.

I think a lot of this comes down to what's technically required vs what you can dependably get away with. It tend to lean towards what's technically required, but that's just me.

Another related question for our Canadian participants.... Do you know if foreign boats are required to have a license vs domestic boats?
__________________

__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012