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12-01-2014, 04:43 PM
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#41
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Chicago, IL
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,993
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On overnight passages we do two hour shifts from 10 pm to 6 am if there are two of us. If there are four of us, then we do three hour shifts in a way that one person is replaced every 1/1-2 hours.
Since these are generally just overnights or 48 hour trips, sleep is caught up on during the day when it is easier for one person to be on watch.
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Marty
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12-01-2014, 05:11 PM
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#42
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,146
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Again...an overnight is doable for most people.
Lack of sleep has many different effects on people and individuals are effected differently.
But it takes weeks of cycle change to effect any effect and there is no "banking" sleep or getting a good rhythm by trying to catch up when you aren't used to that rhythm.
The scientific study that confirms all of that was doe by the USCG, the Army, and NASA as well as others. It may be about 14 years old at this point but I haven't read anything more current.
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5211/do...Operations.pdf
Could there be new evidence? Sure but I haven't seen it yet.
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12-01-2014, 06:39 PM
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#43
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Guru
City: St Augustine,Fl
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,796
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Even if you don't do an "overnight" passage, you can still make up miles by leaving before sun up and travelling a couple hours after dark. At 7.5Kts this is a no brainer. an extra 30 miles per day with a nap or two in the middle of the day. A good way to get used to running after dark without a total commitment. The people who anchor would like this method. Marina cruisers, maybe not so much unless in south Fl where marinas are every mile.
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12-01-2014, 08:57 PM
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#44
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Dauntless Award
City: Wrangell, Alaska
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor of Fortune
Even if you don't do an "overnight" passage, you can still make up miles by leaving before sun up and travelling a couple hours after dark. At 7.5Kts this is a no brainer. an extra 30 miles per day with a nap or two in the middle of the day. A good way to get used to running after dark without a total commitment. The people who anchor would like this method. Marina cruisers, maybe not so much unless in south Fl where marinas are every mile.
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Yes. Great advice. Same goes for running in bad weather, heavy seas, big winds, fog, dark, etc.
Start with a little at a time.
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12-01-2014, 09:38 PM
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#45
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Guru
City: Adelaide
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,218
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As a side note - One of the coolest things about cruising at night is the chance of seeing phosphorescence. It doesn't happen often, but when it does -it is absolutely amazing.
I've seen a really good show of phosphorescence only once, but I'll remember it forever.
For those who haven't had the chance, it' is jaw dropping, like watching a really good show Aroura Borealis (Northern Lights) but in the water.
Tough to explain - Here's a vid which gives an indication.
Sorry for the diversion - Back to sleep deprivation.
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12-01-2014, 09:41 PM
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#46
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,185
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For those of us hitting the Alaska waters in the summer, 18 hour days are very easy to do, but with great stops every 20 or 30 miles not much need to do so. I've a friend who does Port Townsend to Ketchican or Juneau non stop thus avoiding the need to clear Canada customs. Seymour Narrows is the primary timing issue (to get a sleigh ride either way), discounting the weather of course.
But not singlehanded for all those boaters I know, debris watch is pretty important in a few spots.
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12-01-2014, 11:22 PM
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#47
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Guru
City: New Orleans
Vessel Name: Panache
Vessel Model: Viking 43 Double Cabin '76
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,253
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I'm really glad to see there's sailors who enjoy night runs - I not infrequently do it for sport - different and interesting perspective on nearly every aspect of boating.
As to watches - stood 6/6 as a routine on submarines - then got associated with the brown water navy that preferred the grunts' 2/2. I seemed to prefer the 2/2 as did a lot of people more accustomed to the 6/6 or 4/4 of the haze grey navy. Maybe for the reasons referred to by Wayfarer
Great discussion.
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12-02-2014, 05:21 AM
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#48
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Guru
City: Seattle
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AusCan
As a side note - One of the coolest things about cruising at night is the chance of seeing phosphorescence. It doesn't happen often, but when it does -it is absolutely amazing.
I've seen a really good show of phosphorescence only once, but I'll remember it forever.
For those who haven't had the chance, it' is jaw dropping, like watching a really good show Aroura Borealis (Northern Lights) but in the water.
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The phosphorescent glow-show has been amazing lately here in the Persian Gulf. Perhaps its the cold water with the change of seasons? Big, giant pieces of glowing "things" that the kids love to collect.
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12-05-2014, 03:28 PM
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#49
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,681
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Even the best boaters can screw up "running" at night. This was last weekend during the Ocean Volvo Race. They hit a shoal/reef going 19 knots in Indian Ocean near Mauritius. No one was hurt.
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12-05-2014, 04:43 PM
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#50
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Senior Member
City: Whittier
Vessel Name: Nomad
Vessel Model: Brix 42
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
Going to sea with a shorthanded crew to begin with is a gamble.
With no flexibility, sea sickness, sickness, injury, excessive fatigue can change things fast.
Not saying don't do it, but be ready for the consequences.
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I totally agree with this. Any plan that doesn't allow for personel replacement is dangerous. I consider 3 the minimun and 4 optimum. However, I tend to operate with an abundance of caution. So far it has stood me in good stead.
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12-05-2014, 09:42 PM
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#51
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Senior Member
City: West Vancouver
Vessel Name: Ka Hale Kai
Vessel Model: 52' Cheoy Lee
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 158
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Most I have done is 23 days 24/7 with only two of us, (pacific crossing) but other shorter passages too. We started with 4 on 4 off, but always tuned it up for the day, how we were feeling, the weather etc.
Probably ended up tending more towards longer shifts than shorter ones as by the time one got below, wet gear off, and got to bed a short shift ended up with little more than a nap which is hard to do over multiple days.
With only two people it can get a bit solitary, as you are not both up at the same time for many hours in the day.
Shorter passages (measured in a few days), we did some runs that ended up as a few 2 - 3 hr naps in a 24 hour period, but that can only be maintained short term. It is amazing how much a lack of sleep catches up with your judgement and mental acuity.
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12-06-2014, 07:14 AM
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#52
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Guru
City: Gulf Shores, Ala.
Vessel Name: Ulysses
Vessel Model: Romsdal 1963
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 878
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I would imagine that half of my boating experience has been at night. On the Western Rivers and Inland Waterways on commercial towboats the watches are split 6 on 6 off with the Capt. taking the "front" watch (6-12) and the pilot taking the "back watch" (12-6). I always enjoyed the "back watch" during the midnight to six in the a.m. period there were little or no distractions- no cook coming up and complaining about something, no calls from the dispatchers changing orders, no deck personnel whining about there girlfriends-just you and the river.
As mentioned above, your body does adjust- to this day I only sleep about four hours at a time and really try to take a nap everyday. I drink coffee black due to not turning on a light to add sugar or cream.
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12-06-2014, 12:47 PM
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#53
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Guru
City: Beaufort, NC USA
Vessel Name: Sylphide
Vessel Model: Kingston Aluminum Yacht 44' Custom
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulysses
I always enjoyed the "back watch" during the midnight to six in the a.m. period there were little or no distractions- no cook coming up and complaining about something, no calls from the dispatchers changing orders, no deck personnel whining about there girlfriends-just you and the river.
As mentioned above, your body does adjust- to this day I only sleep about four hours at a time and really try to take a nap everyday. I drink coffee black due to not turning on a light to add sugar or cream.
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Amen on the 12-6. It does turn into a bit of a vampire watch in the winter, though. At least up north, it does. You're only on watch in the daylight for 4 hours a day. And why, oh why, are the cooks always the source of so much freakin' drama???
What are your hitches like? I find that after a month, 6 and 6 kinda beats me up. Also, I recently gave up most of my coffee habit. I switched to decaf, just for the taste, and I only drink it every once in a while. I've found that the little sleep I do get is much better quality.
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12-06-2014, 01:16 PM
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#54
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Guru
City: Gulf Shores, Ala.
Vessel Name: Ulysses
Vessel Model: Romsdal 1963
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 878
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Dave:
I have not done any commercial stuff for quite awhile. They were normally supposed to be 30/20 but usually ended up 40/15. The longest was 84/15. I believe the reason the cooks were so drama filled, and this is not meant to be sexist due to many were male, is that they encountered all members of the crew and listened in on all table conversations. There biggest joy was to stir up one watch against the other it seemed. The engineers were typically the easiest to get along with and presented the least amount of trouble, probably because most were either deaf or very hard of hearing.
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12-06-2014, 01:33 PM
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#55
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Guru
City: Beaufort, NC USA
Vessel Name: Sylphide
Vessel Model: Kingston Aluminum Yacht 44' Custom
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulysses
They were normally supposed to be 30/20 but usually ended up 40/15. The longest was 84/15...
There biggest joy was to stir up one watch against the other it seemed.
The engineers were typically the easiest to get along with and presented the least amount of trouble, probably because most were either deaf or very hard of hearing.
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84 days of 6 and 6 would be a real killer. No thanks...
I find that many crew members enjoy causing trouble like that. My current Captian also likes to stir the pot. It can make things fun in small doses, but is mostly really annoying.
It's great having an engine crew you can get along with. Makes things so much smoother. There are few things more counterproductive than a 'deck vs engine' mentality. You're literally all in the same boat together...
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12-06-2014, 02:43 PM
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#56
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Guru
City: Little River SC
Vessel Name: JAZ
Vessel Model: Ta Chaio/CT35
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 716
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Tracy & Susie Hellman 1985 Ta Chiao CT 35
Twin Lehman Super 90's Cummins Onan 5kw
Lightkeepers Marina -Little River, SC
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