Rolling Ball Bilge Pump Switch

[Chrisjs]

Time to replace the Rule bilge pump switch (again!). Just saw an inexpensive ($24) replacement at WM that incorporates a rolling ball bearing. Does anybody have comments about this type of switch? Seems like the switch mechanism is completely sealed unlike the Rule.

 

[N4712]

Time to replace the Rule bilge pump switch (again!). Just saw an inexpensive ($24) replacement at WM that incorporates a rolling ball bearing. Does anybody have comments about this type of switch? Seems like the switch mechanism is completely sealed unlike the Rule.

I would go for an ultra, and you never have to worry again.

 

[Larry M]

I would go for an ultra, and you never have to worry again.

Wow! Never worry again?

They are good switches ($$) but they're still mechanical and the wiring in the bilge is always a concern. That being said we had one on our last boat for 7 years and it never failed. We mounted it against a bulk head, independent of the bilge pump which made servicing the pump easier.

 

[Brooksie]

I would go for an ultra, and you never have to worry again.

I think not. In my experience, they don't work good in freshwater, soapy water, oily water, or water w/ dog hair. IMHO the only "install and forget forever" switch is the diaphragm type switches like GROCO & PAR make. No wires in the bilge either.
I have had the same switch on my moored boat for 35 years and it still works fine.

 

[N4712]

Oh ok I wasn't aware of every one else's problems we've had one in our camano and now have one in the Nordy. They've did us just fine, sorry if I miss lead you but we've had good luck.

 

[BruceK]

My Ultra has worked longer than any of the 4 or 5 hinged arm switch variety. There was an extensive old thread about switches, including the air pressure type which we don`t see advertised here.

 

[Brooksie]

Jabsco Hydro Air Bilge Switch

Groco Bilge Pump Control Kit

 

[BruceK]

Thanks Brooksie. I thought they were a good idea, but not being sold here, and with people talking of DIYing their own out of old washing machine parts (!), thought they might not go down well with insurers and bought the Ultima, from Amazon US, importing 2 for the retail price of one here, freight included.

 

[db2]

This is one of those subjects without a good answer. The truth is that all bilge pump switches are troublesome and they are kind of like the light inside your refrigerator. I second the thumbs up for the Ultra switch. I have had one in a cruising sailboat for several seasons and it has never failed to cycle the pump even when a vent line broke and filled the bilge with diesel. I am a big fan of Johnson bilge pumps, the big ones are of much better quality than Rule, so I have installed 2 Johnson Ultima (not Ultra) switches in the low water/high water backup system in the bow of my trawler. These are no moving part electronic switches with a cost of $35-50 depending on where you buy. So far so good but they have only been in place for 4 months. I like that they wont get fowled by debris in the bilge. I test them every month.

 

[Defever]

Check out. DEPCO.com they have a switch called That ultimate switch page 31

 

[Defever]

Check out. DEPCO.com they have a switch called The Ultimate switch page 31 in the catalog it works

 

[rwidman]

In my opinion, the best switch for a bilge pump would be a mercury switch. A little ball of mercury sits in a sealed glass tube and when tilted, it runs down and makes a connection between two contacts inside the tube. No wear and no corrosion. Many of the old round residential heating thermostats used these switches.

Unfortunately, the government has outlawed these switches and left us to find a substitute. I used to have a bunch of them that I removed from equipment several years ago but I discarded them when I moved.

The only float switch I ever had trouble with on a boat was on a shower sump. The ones in my boat's bilges are 14 years old and working just fine. The impeller on one pump broke but not the pump itself or the switch. I have no idea what sort of switches they are but they are conventional float switches that pivot up when the water in the bilge rises to a certain level.

 

[psneeld]

the rolling ball ones...especially the RULE ones for the last decade or so have been problematic in 2 areas...the balls themselves get dead spots on them...probably from arcing and the floats themselves if subjected to typical bilge slime do get sticky enough to "not float".

I agree that the air ones and some of the electronic ones do have their advantages but alas they too can have failures (even though you have not experienced one - yet).

My solution is just buy a couple of the cheaper ones...whatever suits your fancy or even try 2 different styles....connect both to the pump, one higher and out of the goo so to speak...the higher one should not suffer the same fate of the lower one and be a backup just in case.

Of all the safety precautions we as boaters take...I'm not sure why this simple yet effective solution isn't explored more.

Hook the higher one to the high water alarm system as an added benefit.

 

[FF]

To me the easiest way to mount a bilge pump, its primary switch and a secondary , with even a third switch for a sinking!!! alarm is to mount the pump on a piece of plywood with an arm that is fastened to the boat with wing nuts.

When its time for inspection,or cleaning the intake screen the entire setup, hoses and all are lifted.

This allows easy soldering of the various connections , and heat shrink tubing to be installed.

KISS!

 

[fryedaze]

My bilge switches seldom operate. The only time they operate is if I dump water tanks to the bilge. I put a small automatic Rule 500 gph in the bilge. It cycles every 2.5 minutes for about two secounds and detects load on the motor if it is pumping water. I put it in to maintain water in the bilge as low as posible. I dont have a bilge sump, its just a trough that runs the partial length of the keel. Water level is less than 1/2".
The first one failed at two months but the replacement has worked for over three years.

Rule Pumps Automatic 12 Volt DC Bilge Pump, 500 GPH 25S

 

[rwidman]

............. This allows easy soldering ...........

Shame, shame, shame!

 

[Edelweiss]

This allows easy soldering of the various connections , and heat shrink tubing to be installed.

I started soldering my bilge pump connections in as well as they're in a damp environment which really attacks the barrel connectors and oxidation wicks up the exposed wire. According to the ABYC is acceptable as long as there is a mechanical connection and the joint is supported against vibration. So I cross twist and wrap the two copper wire ends together, solder, liquid tape and heat shrink tubing the joint for support. Just about everything else, other than fine instrument electrical connections, I use mechanical connectors.

11.14.5.7 Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.

 

[psneeld]

always interesting who here knows the whole/most of the story and those that don't....

 

[N4712]

Shame, shame, shame!

Assumed a bit to fast there chief.

 

[alberto]

I recommend an electronic one;
- Never jammed by debris
- fully adjustable
- timer of 5 sec of delay to start (to avoid starting by just rolling)
- time for disconnect 5 sec in order to pump up avoiding water return if you have not anti return valve

you should add a bypass electric switch for testing in the bilge (without water)

 

[rwidman]

Testing the bilge pump without water tells you that the pump is running but it doesn't tell you if it will actually pump water out of the bilge.

I was cleaning my bilge once and used a hose to put water into the bilge. The pump came on and ran as expected but I eventually noticed that the water level wasn't changing. It turns out. the plastic impeller broke where it attaches to the pump shaft and wasn't spinning.

Other faults could be a kinked or plugged discharge hose or debris clogging the intake screen of the pump.

My message is - check your bilge pumps with actual water from time to time. See if they actually pump the water out.

 

[sdowney717]

the rolling ball ones...especially the RULE ones for the last decade or so have been problematic in 2 areas...the balls themselves get dead spots on them...probably from arcing and the floats themselves if subjected to typical bilge slime do get sticky enough to "not float".

I agree that the air ones and some of the electronic ones do have their advantages but alas they too can have failures (even though you have not experienced one - yet).

My solution is just buy a couple of the cheaper ones...whatever suits your fancy or even try 2 different styles....connect both to the pump, one higher and out of the goo so to speak...the higher one should not suffer the same fate of the lower one and be a backup just in case.

Of all the safety precautions we as boaters take...I'm not sure why this simple yet effective solution isn't explored more.

Hook the higher one to the high water alarm system as an added benefit.

2 switches works for safety, but 1 more switch plus 1 more pump is better.

I just bought a SPX-Johnson AS888 rolling ball switch cheap off ebay.
I plan to use a 40 amp cube relay to reduce the load on the switch for a Rule 3700 pump.
Switch was said to have a microswitch that the rolling ball whacks.

You have to loop the wire which allows float to lift. I did not like their solution of a small slot under the base, wire can fall out of place.

So I drilled 2 small holes, passed wire thru then hotglued to secure so when I screw it down wires wont be out of place.

Other thing, this may have issue shutting pump off. When float falls down, it has to be almost touching the surface it is mounted on. A pump can not pump that low. So I will put something under the switch mount screws to lift it higher to ensure a turn off.
I figure the relay will take the load and lengthen life of the switch.

This switch design is better than the sealed shaft switch that seal can fail and water leaks into the float where it has electrical points. I had two of those type fail. The shaft seal leaked, shaft corroded, one float stuck, other one switch points rusted.

This SPX switch, a weakness is wires can break over long time float moving. At least there is no rubber seal sealing metal shaft.

 

[rwidman]

Assumed a bit to fast there chief.

A properly done crimp is more reliable than a soldered connection. This goes double for Joe Average who doesn't know how to solder in the first place.

 

[Hotrod]

My bilge switches seldom operate. The only time they operate is if I dump water tanks to the bilge. I put a small automatic Rule 500 gph in the bilge. It cycles every 2.5 minutes for about two secounds and detects load on the motor if it is pumping water. I put it in to maintain water in the bilge as low as posible. I dont have a bilge sump, its just a trough that runs the partial length of the keel. Water level is less than 1/2".
The first one failed at two months but the replacement has worked for over three years.

Rule Pumps Automatic 12 Volt DC Bilge Pump, 500 GPH 25S

I did the same thing, as you with the pump that runs on a couple minute cycle. I ran the hose to the shower sump, in the engine room. I also put a one way valve , on the larger pump, so no water returned, back down the hose, from when pumped overboard.

 

[motion30]

The failures I have had with the rule switches. And there have been many is that they turn the pump on but will not turn it off therefore burning up the pump as well as a switch. I no longer by Jabsco products ,as almost everyone I have owned has been of poor quality

 

[psneeld]

Joe average can solder fine, it is Joe Spaz that cant.

Same with most wiring jobs and crimping with proper tools if they take a few minutes to learn the basics.

 

[BruceK]

....I just bought a SPX-Johnson AS888 rolling ball switch cheap off ebay.
I plan to use a 40 amp cube relay to reduce the load on the switch for a Rule 3700 pump.
Switch was said to have a microswitch that the rolling ball whacks.

You have to loop the wire which allows float to lift. I did not like their solution of a small slot under the base, wire can fall out of place.

So I drilled 2 small holes, passed wire thru then hotglued to secure so when I screw it down wires wont be out of place.

Other thing, this may have issue shutting pump off. When float falls down, it has to be almost touching the surface it is mounted on. A pump can not pump that low. So I will put something under the switch mount screws to lift it higher to ensure a turn off.
I figure the relay will take the load and lengthen life of the switch....
This SPX switch, a weakness is wires can break over long time float moving....

I like a bargain, but the item has to be worth having. Work seen as necessary in the hope of making the bargain item work, and keep working, says false economy. Rightly, you don`t trust the switch as designed and built.
Design has progressed, there are better reliable switches. In the event of switch failure, what an insurer says of a switch, custom modified before installation, could be a major concern.

 

[Brooksie]

For my money, the best switch/s by far are the diaphragm types by Groco and PAR. They last for decades and no wires in the bilge water just to mention 2 of their many selling points.
Electronic switches can either stick on due to hair, oil, or soap in the bilgewater or stick off b/c some don't sensepure rainwater. I have kept my boat on a mooring for 30 years and would not have any but the diaphragm type switch.

 

[FF]

For folks with time to play perhaps a self powered bilge pump to remove small water as it accumulates.

THe simplest I have seen was a bracket that held a large car mechanical fuel pump .

The operating arm had a bolted on lever with a weight that operated the pump on each rock of the boat.

Discharge into a sink and the bilge can be very dry if the suction hose is well placed.

The hardest part is finding THE low point in the bilge to suck the last drops from.

Good hunting,the local scrap yard has cheep pumps.

 

[sdowney717]

I like a bargain, but the item has to be worth having. Work seen as necessary in the hope of making the bargain item work, and keep working, says false economy. Rightly, you don`t trust the switch as designed and built.
Design has progressed, there are better reliable switches. In the event of switch failure, what an insurer says of a switch, custom modified before installation, could be a major concern.

I have 5 bilge pumps so of a necessary precaution since I dont want it to just sink maybe if something weird happens, many pumps lower the overall risk.
I have a sealed compartment aft with 2 pumps. The main bilge has 3 pumps. There is also a small 350 gph shower pump. So boat has two compartments that water cannot flow between. I flooded the aft compartment deliberately to see what happens. At first the flow coming in is strong, but as it floods, it slows a lot and just about stops. So it would buy me lots of time if a strut cracked open the hull. something pierced the hull, hose failure, etc.. Took several hours to flood and pump out.

I agree with you, it is a cheap switch. All my other switches are Rule non rolling ball style switches. It hopefully will work for at least 5 years.
Doing the mods to me is just common sense to make it work better.
Some of the Amazon reviews had said the pumps would come on and not shut off, could be due to it's float not falling far enough down. And in small boat the angles might not be helping that either.