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Old 01-20-2019, 10:33 PM   #1
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Raymarine EV-1 output

Hi all,

The short version of my question...

Anyone happen to know what NMEA 2000 PGNs are output to the SealTalk-NG port by the Raymarine EV-1 sensor core and/or ACU-200? Or if either outputs SOG, COG, and Rate of Turn, specifically?


The long version of my question...

I just bought a "new to me" boat that came with a Raymarine Autopilot. It seems to have the EV-1 sensor core connected to an ACU-200.

I'd like to add a Em-Tek A100 Class A AIS:
-- https://www.westmarine.com/buy/em-tr...iver--12333944

According to the manual, even though it has an internal GPS, it needs to get COG, SOG, and ROT NMEA 0183 data from an external source. I have emailed them to confirm this.
-- https://shop.marinetraffic.com/fileu...100-manual.pdf

ROT (Rate of Turn) is the tricky one that I can't get externally from an inexpensive GPS or heading sensor.

Raymarine says the EV-1 has an angular rate sensor that should be able to provide that output. And, it has a Seatalk-NG interface to which it reportedly outputs NMEA 2000 data which can be converted to NMEA 0183.

But, bizarrely, the EV-1/ACU manual suggests that each only outputs rudder angle data.
-- https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1OUjAc4I8S.pdf

Having said that, users on various forums report seeing various other NMEA 2000 data on the output and/or using it to supply data to AIS units or other autopilots.

Would anyone happen to know what NMEA 2000 PGNs it outputs, or the equivalent NMEA 0183 sentences? Or, if it outputs ROT, COG, and SOG, specifically? And, if so, how?

Thanks so very much!

-Greg
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:59 AM   #2
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The EV-1 does output ROT in PGN 127251. See Data from EV-1

Seems the manual you found is simply wrong. *sigh*
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:28 AM   #3
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Why a Class A AIS? Class A is for commercial vessels that are required to have AIS. A Class B is cheaper and needs less information.
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Old 01-21-2019, 10:48 AM   #4
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It's odd that it would require SOG and COG from an external source, even with an internal GPS. It doesn't believe itself?
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Old 01-21-2019, 03:05 PM   #5
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Hi all,

1. Thanks, Danderer! I guess I believe that post. I saw a few with similar reports. It is just so strange that Raymarine hasn't updated the manual, posted an addendum, FAQ, etc, given that it is, and has been, an active product for years. But, it is what it is. I'm going to go for it!


2. DDW: Em-Tek's tech support got back to me 1st thing this morning. They were very responsive given that I emailed last night. I didn't expect that. The manual language isn't perfect. The internal GPS does produce RMC, including COG and SOG. So, the additional sources, if present, would just be back-up.

It'll work without the ROT and HDT/THS, which it can't produce. It just won't put the data into the outgoing messages. So, if I want those in dynamic data (which I do), I need to supply them via NMEA 0183. It looks like I'll be able to get these from the EV-1 via a NMEA 2000 <-> NMEA 0183 bridge.


3. wwestman: I absolutely do /not/ need class A AIS for any reason. I just want it, "because I do."

My last boat had a class B unit and it served me very well. I liked it much better than simply having a receiver.

For example, when I was making the trip back from Catalina to Wilmington, cutting across LA Harbor and the shipping lanes at night, I'd occasionally want to call one of the big ships to make sure that they were okay with my distance crossing their bow. I think I was too cautions in asking them, because they seemed unenthusiastic for the communication. But, it did become much easier once I had Class B AIS. When I'd call, they'd know exactly who was calling, where I was, and where we'd cross.

I also liked to be able to go back to AIS tracking sites and see myself, even though this could sometimes be spotty.

As for upgrading to Class A for the new boat, I just decided to go for it. I can turn down the output power for crowded areas, or go full output when more distant in less dense areas.

If I have one hope for a Class A unit, it is that I'll show up more reliably on AIS tracking sites. Sometimes they'd miss my Class B, depending upon how far out I was.

I don't really need to feed all of this information into the unit, either. It'll still do its thing without. It'll just have less dynamic data to send. But, I tend to go "all in". So, even though I have no mandate for Class A AIS, and as a voluntary user can have it send less dynamic data, I want it to do everything. There is no really good reason.

The price point on that Em-Trak A-100 is nice for a Class A AIS -- $999 at West Marine. So, it looks like, other than that, the only cost will be a NMEA-0183 <-> NMEA-200 bridge to get the data from the existing EV-1 sensor core.


All:

Since it and I are many hours apart, I have to plan ahead and bring everything I need with me. So, if I was going to need some type of compass or heading sensor, I wanted to bring it. But, the good news is, it looks like I won't. Thanks so very much for your help!

Next time I take the boat out and have a second set of hands, I'll run a logger on the NMEA-2000 bus and capture some traffic to post here so others who may be searching can see an example. It might be a few weeks to a couple of months before I get to take the boat out with someone else onboard so I can turn on and off devices and collect logs while underway. But, I promise to get back to the forum with the post.

Thanks again!

-Greg
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:49 PM   #6
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big price drop

Hi all,

If anyone happens to want to be interested in a class A AIS. West Marine just dropped the price of the Em-Trak A100 unit I mentioned from $999 to $749.

-- https://www.westmarine.com/buy/em-tr...iver--12333944

To me, that seems like a really great price for a well-known and very capable unit that seems to generally sell for $1100-$1300. And, although I can't prove it, I think it sells for significantly more under some other nameplate(s).

I previously saw a price drop on it at West Marine from $999 to $899, but it went back up before I was ready for it. That looks like it was a blessing -- because I ordered it now for $749.

I don't know why the price is so low, it is $1100-$1400 on other sites, which is still on the low side for class A.

The other thing I can say is that when I emailed their tech support with pre-purchase questions about which specific NMEA sentences it accepted, how it would react to various missing NMEA data, and if I could use the NMEA inputs slightly different than described in the online manual, they were very responsive with thoughtful replies. I have a feeling that my email was being answered from Britain, accounting for the lag.

At any rate, in a couple of weeks when I get it all installed and integrated, I'll let you know if it turned out to be as much of a deal as I think it is. But, for now, it looks like a class A AIS transceiver for not that much more than a class B transceiver.

Cheers!
-Greg
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Old 01-28-2019, 03:50 PM   #7
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That does seem like a good price. Looked closely and see is it a 0183-based unit. (Yup, you mentioned that in your original note, I missed it.)

Just out of curiosity, what is your preferred solution for converting from 2K <--> 0183 for this application?
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Old 01-28-2019, 06:31 PM   #8
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A great resource for any questions related to Raymarine is their forum...
Raymarine forum
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Old 01-28-2019, 06:40 PM   #9
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Hi Danderer,

The two I have looked at are...
-- ActiSense NGW1 (https://www.actisense.com/product/ngw-1/, Just under $200)
-- ShipModul Miniplex-3 1137 (ShipModul Maritieme Elektronica, Just over $400)

The NGW looks like a nice, clean solution to NMEA-0183<->NMEA-2000. It has been discussed a lot in various forums and seems robust. They seem to offer a version preconfigured for the higher speed AIS data -- but the other versions can be configured the same way. And, they seem to offer some packaging with a ST-NG cable for the NMEA-2000 interface, which would save me that minor step. They seem to sell for less than $200.

But, I am actually trying to integrate NMEA-2000/ST-NG (Most of my Raymarine stuff) with NMEA-0183 (DSC, AIS), and with ST-1 (An autopilot remote), and get it all via USB into an OpenCPN PC-based chartplotter. Ideally, I'd also like to be able to experiment with a wi-fi OpenCPN tablet.

If the ShipModul Miniplex-3 1137 works as advertised, it will let me remove my existing ST-1<->ST-NG bridge, and directly integrate NMEA-0183<->NMEA-2000(ST-NG)<->ST-1, do some filtering, routing, and translation to minimize redundant data and choose among similar message forms, and get it all exported to USB for OpenCPN and to Wi-Fi for the tablet experiment. It has been discussed enough in various forums for me to know that it is "for real". But, not enough that I am entirely sure it can do /all/ of these things robustly, never mind at the same time. Having said that, it seems "for real" enough to be worth a shot. And, if it works, it'll make things relatively simple (eliminating USB and ST-1 interfaces) and save me the money for a separate Wi-Fi gateway.

So, my plan is to give the ShipModul Miniplex-3 1137 a go. If not, to back up and build it up with separate components, including the Actisense NGW1 (NMEA-0183<->NMEA-2000) and the Actisense NGT1 (NMEA-2000<->USB), each of which seems to have good reports of actual use on the Internet.

I'll report back, when done.

Cheers!
-Greg
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:36 AM   #10
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I guess I was just wondering if an N2K AIS wouldn't be cheaper when adding in the cost and complexity of translating for the A100. I haven't done the math and if you've got other uses for 0183 data then...

The NGW1 is a good unit -- I've got a couple. I've not encountered any problems with them. Note the ST-NG cable they sell they just buy from Raymarine. So you can buy both pieces from ActiSense or source the two independently. Which is cheaper depends on the deals available on the day.

I've played with a router from vyacht to combine 0183 and N2K data and access it via WiFi. Works fine and is open source so I could tweak the data stream as I wanted. It can't do 0183->N2K however.
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:40 PM   #11
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The least expensive class A AIS unit I could find with NMEA-2000 is the McMurdo SmartFind M5 AIS Class A. It looks nice, and seems to have a nice color display (vs monochroe on the em-trak). But, I haven't heard any chatter about them.


There is one listed as "new" for sale on eBay for $1289:
-- https://www.ebay.com/itm/McMurdo-AIS...YwS:rk:12:pf:0

...beyond that, they seem to be up at the $1800-$2000 price range.


So, comparing that to the $749 em-trak A100 unit at West Marine + the $200 for the NMEA-2000<->NMEA-0183 bridge, the A100 would still come in $300 - $500 less expensive. Of course, it would also still come in without a color display!

But, the math for me didn't quite work like that. I need the NMEA bridge to get my DSC data into my OpenCPN chart plotter, anyway. So, in some sense, that part is free to me. And, my savings (for the loss of color) is $600 - $1000.

If the Miniplex unit works, I get to remove my ST-1<->ST-NG bridge and get WiFi with additional device, so the amount of "stuff" I have doesn't really go up..

Yeah. I looked at that vyacht device. It is about $200, which is nice. I like the idea of the software being open source, but as you said, it doesn't do the bridging I need.

I think I can actually get the C-series classic to do the bridging I need. But, I don't want to go that route. I want to use it only a a fishfinder, and leave the rest independent of it.

Cheers -- and thanks again!
-Greg
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