Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-28-2015, 01:17 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
Arcticspud's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Noeta
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 46
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 99
Radar reflector location

I did a search on the subject already. I have done a lot of reading on radar reflectors and realize the debate of their usefulness is like the anchor debate. I view it as a can't hurt item.

My question is...

Has anyone located a radar reflector in the forward area of the flybridge? I have quite a bit of space that isn't being used. I don't want to put any weight up there for the obvious reasons. It seems like it would be a good location.

The follow on question for anyone that has one up there, do you get any return or interference from your own radar?
__________________
Advertisement

Arcticspud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 01:33 PM   #2
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
If the radar transmission beam doesn't hit the reflector it shouldn't cause any problems no matter where it is. They are typically mounted high so they can be seen by radar units farther away from the boat.
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 02:05 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Arcticspud's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Noeta
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 46
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
If the radar transmission beam doesn't hit the reflector it shouldn't cause any problems no matter where it is. They are typically mounted high so they can be seen by radar units farther away from the boat.
Thanks for the answer.

I understand all that. I was hoping to hear from someone who has the installation in the flybridge.
Arcticspud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 02:17 PM   #4
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Radar beams do a pretty good job of seing through fiberglass. That's why on many powerboats their best radar reflector is the engine(s) if at least part of it /them is above them waterline. From your avatar your radar antenna is a long ways above the flying bridge structure. Bif you don't get any interference from your power controls, instrumentation, flying bridge enclosure framng, etc you wont from a radar reflector mounted under the console somewhere. It's just another passive piece of metal.

As a single data point a friend has a lobsterboat with the radome mounted on the mast. He has a reflector on one of the mast stays. It used to be attached so it was just below the radome where it caused no interference to the radar display. Over time the clamps have loosened and the reflector has slid down the stay to be just off the cabin roof. He hasn't bothered to raise it back up, and in that lower position it still causes no interference to the radar returns.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 02:22 PM   #5
Veteran Member
 
Arcticspud's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Noeta
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 46
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 99
alright...that makes sense. My mast is full of gear and was looking at other locations to place a reflector. Has anyone place a Morbi type reflector directly on top of the radome?
Arcticspud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 02:34 PM   #6
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,195
Patrick,

I would think as high as possible but out of the radar beam would be best. How about suspended below the radar on your radar mast? No chance of catching the bottom of a radar beam there like you might forward on the FB.

Your vessel probably already has a pretty good radar signature. Have you asked a boating buddy to take a picture of his radar for you to see the radar return yourself? I was surprised at how well power vessels typically appear compared to sailboats. Maybe it's the engines or the large profile, but they are prominent on my radar.
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 02:54 PM   #7
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,937
Up under the flybridge fairing is fine...make sure it is in the catch rain position for best reflection....that is more important than a few feet higher...


and remember most radar scanners are behind some thin fiberglass that they are encased in.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 03:32 PM   #8
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
This is about the only one worth buying:

EchoMaster by Davis

Just be sure to mount it as high as possible and in the correct "catch rain" position.

Of course just having your radar on increases your radar signature to other vessels. So you may be wasting your money on a reflector.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 03:35 PM   #9
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,195
Paint it black and it'll double as an anchor ball.
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 03:42 PM   #10
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post
Paint it black and it'll double as an anchor ball.
But what about when one is underway? You don't fly your anchor ball underway, do ya?

Trust this vessel displays its day shape in the vertical position when fishing:

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 03:45 PM   #11
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,937
Hide it under a fairing like I suggested...for metal boats like yours...not needed to be out in the open anyway.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 04:03 PM   #12
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Metal boat? Don't see the need for installing a radar reflector. My metal boat shows up good without one.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 04:30 PM   #13
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
But what about when one is underway? You don't fly your anchor ball underway, do ya?
Simple! When underway, it's a radar reflector. When anchored, it's an anchor ball.
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 06:32 PM   #14
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,614
Radar reflector location

Here is an interesting study...

http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/...tor%20Test.pdf

In my opinion, the hull and superstructure shape, size and height as well as vessel orientation are more influential on the intensity of a radar return than a radar reflector. Sail boats with their sails down produce a poor return for the size of the vessel--much better when abeam of you and the sails up.

One of the better radar returns I've seen from a "trawler type vessel" for the size is the American Tug--there's a lot of flat superstructure returning a radar signal.

The best position for a radar reflector is high on the mast.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 06:42 PM   #15
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
This is about the only one worth buying:

EchoMaster by Davis

Just be sure to mount it as high as possible and in the correct "catch rain" position.

Of course just having your radar on increases your radar signature to other vessels. So you may be wasting your money on a reflector.

Not according to this study:

http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/...tor%20Test.pdf

"The Davis Echomaster has a reasonable peak and average RCS but is too small to meet the performance requirements of ISO 8729[1]."


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 10:59 PM   #16
Guru
 
City: Melbourne, FL
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 922
I don't recall albin making metal boats...
stubones99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 07:42 AM   #17
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,537
Size counts , having flown SAR the best radar reflector seems to be the WWII Navy surplus units that unfold.

Sure you toss it after a season , but the coat is minor.

IF I ever put out a May Day , I would break out 3 or 4 and mount them and save one or two for the raft.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 02:19 PM   #18
GFC
Guru
 
GFC's Avatar
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Beachcomber
Vessel Model: Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,705
OK, I'm going to ask a question that should stir things up a bit. You all are suggesting mounting it in a location that's not in line with the radar beam. That makes sense because you don't want it to interfere with the transmitted beam.


But what about if you mount it in a position where it might distort the minute portion of the transmitted beam that is reflected back to the receiver portion of the antenna. Could that reflected beam be distorted enough by the position of the ball that it could throw off your radar display?


Just curious.
__________________
Mike and Tina
Beachcomber 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
GFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 02:35 PM   #19
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,937
It explains interference in the owners manual pretty well...but a good mounting location of the radar should avoid this issue otherwise radar would be useless on metal vessels.

So it would be pretty hard to mount it someplace to cause that interference unless you tried...turn on you radar and move the reflector around till satisfied.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 06:10 PM   #20
Veteran Member
 
Arcticspud's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Noeta
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 46
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 99
What about mounting a Morbi M3 or M4 on top of your radome?
__________________

Arcticspud is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012