Radar Debate

[Phil23]

Would someone please educate us, we are having an on running debate regarding radar, should it or should it not be running on stand by while underway even if not needed. There are obviously two opinions here yes it is good for the unit and no not necessary, thoughts please

 

[jimdavi]

Always on unless moving into and out of slip, then in standby.

And my favorite anchor is........

 

[Russell Clifton]

This was hashed over pretty thoroughly a few weeks ago. The consensuses was: yes.

 

[Comodave]

Why not???

 

[psneeld]

The USCG strongly encourages it on.

However it is NOT mandatory as seen in their own literature.

Standby is just an interim step, but a long wait if you might need your Radar.

Good idea a lot of the time and for most boaters, so.....it depends.

 

[DavidM]

Why is there a long wait to switch from standby to active radar? If the radar is powered up, ie the magnetron has gone through its start up then on my Raymarine radar it is almost instantaneous to turn it on.

This of course is for chartplotters with a radar option rather than a stand alone radar and display. I suspect 95% of us use the former.

The OP's question may have been more directed at reliability of the radar electronics by keeping it powered up all of the time and on standby. I suspect there is a small benefit but not significant. When I cruised full time I rarely had the radar powered up in daylight and good weather and never had a problem. But if course that is a single data point.

David

 

[ranger58sb]

Why is there a long wait to switch from standby to active radar?

I think he meant long wait from all the way OFF to SCAN, much shorter wait from STANDBY to SCAN.

For Phil: Not mandatory, but why not have it in standby? Downside?

FWIW, ours has a bazillion hours on it, some of that in standby mode... and I just figure that's part of getting our money's worth.

-Chris

 

[psneeld]

Thanks Chris, yes I did mean that.

There's no real downside unless you have a pretty old set.

Post about 2000, most of the recreational Radar mags will probably last the time one owns the boat. As far as other moving parts, it's a crapshoot but most never have problems.

I guess for me force of habit....mom told me to turn off the TV if not watching it....

So I rarely just "leave it on". But for me who has been using Radar on the job for 35 years and cruise the way I cruise....I rarely use it. But I do run it regularly to check it and keep it working.

 

[IRENE]

Operating the radar, independent of perceived need, is an opportunity to become proficient in its use. It is an opportunity to master your craft.

There are so many variables affecting radar such as sea state, sunshine, and precipitation. Just like maneuvering, each time out is a different experience.

Why not add to your experience?

 

[psneeld]

Different needs for different people.

 

[DDW]

I don't turn it on unless visibility suggests it. And in modern small radomes, the turn on from off is very fast (no magnetron) - a few seconds.

 

[psneeld]

I don't turn it on unless visibility suggests it. And in modern small radomes, the turn on from off is very fast (no magnetron) - a few seconds.

I think that's only the broadband radars....conventional still have a warm up of 60-90 seconds (or so)....

 

[MurrayM]

I keep it on and watch how it renders shoreline and landform details when the visibility is good. Theory being, if I need to make decisions in low visibility at least they'll be based on some experience/knowledge.

 

[GFC]

I never power it up unless we're out at night or expect a heavy fog. I don't think my radar is scanning more than 10-12 hours a year.

 

[rsn48]

I have bought but not run my new Garmin radar (not installed yet - refit). But I got the model that turns targets heading towards you red so you don't need a brain to figure out something is closing on you.

Why did I get this? I wasn't doing head checks to my stern to see what was coming up behind me. My guests when at the helm weren't doing head checks to see what was coming up behind the boat. Lots of recreational boaters where I am located with big boats and bigger engines doubling or tripling or more speed my boat could ever do, translation: they are closing quickly.

For me, my radar is more about what's happening behind me than in front of me. But we also get forest fire smoke, very heavy rain, very heavy clouds darkening the day earlier than anticipated, and fog. My radar can also pinpoint trees in the water with branches sticking out.

 

[cafesport]

According to our logs at least one of our radars has been in transmit mode 88% of our engine running hours.

 

[markpierce]

I hate radar on at the dock such as when I'm eating lunch outside at waterfront Sam's Cafe in Tiburon.

 

[Airstream345]

Didn't realize this was a debate. For us, it's always on underway. Standby when powering up and coming into or out of marinas or locks. The lock guys really appreciate it.

 

[tozz]

Didn't realize this was a debate. For us, it's always on underway. Standby when powering up and coming into or out of marinas or locks. The lock guys really appreciate it.

Same here. I always put it standby before powering down.

 

[psneeld]

It's only a debate if one camp thinks the other (on or off all the time) is wrong.

 

[MYTraveler]

I took the question to be whether damage is done with the unit in standby.
I asked Furuno that question when I realized that the TimeZero Professional software that runs my radar puts the radar in standby mode whenever the software is on. (The radar, a 25kw, requires a separate power supply that is not software switched.) Furuno's tech support is usually pretty good, but the particular guy I talked to didn't seem to understand that Magnetrons have a life (and according to some, a half life). His advice was to shut off the power supply, but given its location, there is no convenient way to do that. Then he said to leave it one, because some electronics suffer more from the heat up / cool off cycles than from being continuously powered up. So, bottom line, Furuno's answer was it doesn't really matter, but I am not sure that is true.

 

[Northern Spy]

My understanding is that when the radar is in standby, it is only using heater voltage to maintain the cathode temperature.

The magnetron cathode "wears out" considerably more by giving off electrons by the transmit drive pulse and the associated electron bombardment backscatter.

Furuno states in my manual that the "watchman" mode extends the life of the magnetron by switching from ST-BY to TX automatically.

I also understand that in older radars, all powered up time counts on the hour meter. So this is why magnetrons can last 10,000-15,000 hours when Furuno only claims a 3,000 hour life.

 

[C lectric]

On my far smaller boat I did not want the ghost load. My Furuno is on a proper on/off sw.

I use my radar. I've had it for 2 yrs now but of course usage is far less. It's on for the practice in using it. If you are new to radar there is a lot to learn and learning can't happen when it is off.

Sure there is auto tune and lots of features but if you don't use them then you won't know to use them or if things are working properly or not when you really need it.

 

[cafesport]

Traveler, We are currently running a navnet 3. The hub, both radars, weather and bottom transducers are all wired to their own individual breakers as is our nav system router. There is no problem running any of the net components individually. We can shut off the transducers and put the radars in standby using the furuno software or just turn the breakers off even we don’t fire up time zero. As far as wearing out the magnetron goes, x band is supposed to be 4000 hours and s band around 7k. That’s transmit time btw. We are a bit over this on our small radar right now but we run this one in the daytime and due to its location and mounting angle is preferable to our bigger unit. I’ll probably pull it next year and put it on a go fast tender and upgrade. I do have a friend who was a navy radar tech in the electronics business who tells me he can keep it running forever if I want. If I can wear out a radar a generator or an engine on this boat I figure no one is going to feel sorry for me.

 

[Codger2]

I keep it on and watch how it renders shoreline and landform details when the visibility is good. Theory being, if I need to make decisions in low visibility at least they'll be based on some experience/knowledge.

I do the very same. Not only do I have it on all the time when cruising, I am fascinated by what one can learn with constant practice. Having 2 MFDs on the bridge allows me to practice for the day that I really need it. I do all my navigating with the right hand MFD while the left hand MFD usually has a radar image on it. While I'm practicing, Otto drives the boat & a crew member stands watch . I even pipe radar to my salon TV where I, again, practice while in the salon. Over kill? Maybe, but as I said, I love it!

 

[drb1025]

I have my radar on all of the time. It is my rear view mirror. The other way to see behind me is to open and look out of each pilot house door, which I do, but the radar helps too.

 

[markpierce]

Radar is helpful, but it is hard to beat eyeballs when there is visibility.

 

[Okydowky]

Enjoying this thread, sorry for my ignorance on radars and magnetrons. We have an older radar on our current boat on mast about a foot above our heads when we are on the upper helm.
Things were all good till my wife read a sticker “RADIOACTIVE” with a bunch of other warnings of safe distances to be away from the unit which would mean I would need a longer boat to pull this off.

So needless to say it’s only been turned a few times in the middle of the night when dragging anchor! Lol, ok or when I want to get a rise out of my wife I will turn it on in the middle of the day to make her run screaming to the dink to avoid radiation exposure, lol true story...

Question: Is any of this fear true?

Troy

 

[DDW]

I think that's only the broadband radars....conventional still have a warm up of 60-90 seconds (or so)....

Broadband and CHIRP.

 

[psneeld]

From West Marine Advisor....


"It’s been called solid-state radar, broadband radar, Frequency Modulated Continuous Wave (FMCW), pulse compression radar and CHIRP. Yes, there are subtle variations, which are primarily interesting to the techies among us........"


https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/New-Radar-Technology


https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/know-how-radar-101


The latest type of radar equipment now available for leisure marine use is broadband, Pulse Compression (CHIRP) or Frequency Modulated Continuous Wave (FMCW) radar. All are the same (the names just describe certain aspects of their technology) and all utilize solid-state circuitry instead of the older, heavier, more power-hungry magnetron-based devices.