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Old 08-09-2018, 10:00 PM   #1
DDW
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Question on 3D vision transducer install

I've got a pair of the Raymarine RV-212 transducers to install. Never had anything like that before, it's mainly for entertainment value. Raymarine literature says it is best not more than 12" off centerline. American Tug did not read the Raymarine literature when they designed the boat, and the only clear area to install them is about 24" off centerline.

Does anyone have the Raymarine or competition's transducers installed 24" off centerline, and should I anticipate problems?

I tried Raymarine's technical forum but they seem to be on vacation.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:49 PM   #2
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Don't trust me on this, but I think if they are installed to far apart the only thing that will happen is you'll have a blank stripe down the center of the screen.
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:39 PM   #3
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Dixie Life has it right, the reason the should be close together is so there's no blind spot in between. Also, it's probably better that they're close together so that the stabilizing accelerometer they have in each transducer match up with the motion of the boat but I can't imagine that it would be noticeable as long as they were spaced an equal distance from the keel.
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:17 PM   #4
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I've got Simrad gear so my transducers are Navico. The "Navico StructureScan 3DŽ Stainless Steel Thru-Hull Transducer - Pair" transducers are definitely more than twelve inches off center. More like 24". I haven't noticed any problems with them so far. (Installed April 2018) The installer used fairing blocks which he cut on an angle to match the hull deadrise at the mounting locations as best he could. The 3D function is nice but the resolution is unimpressive to me. The system really shines in non-3D mode giving wide view in fairly shallow water. In my slip today the depth showed around 9 feet and indicated distance to edge of view was 43 feet. I can't swear to the accuracy on that number but that's what's indicated.
Edit- Haven't noticed any dead or noncovered area directly under the keel.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:46 PM   #5
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I ended up installing them aft of the engine, about 18" off center. I don't get much of a stripe down the middle, but the technology must be young because I rarely get a picture like the brochure depicts, and often it is pure gibberish. They are using a 9 axis MEMS as an artificial horizon to stabilize the pseudo image, and it is bonkers more than half the time.

These transducers are tilted element, made to accommodate the deadrise. Where I ended up putting them is near the shy end of their range ("6 - 18 deg") and I was not able to keep them a meter or more from wires, etc. That might be throwing off the magnetometers - for the last few days the image spins like a top constantly, but the problem changes from day to day. Sometimes it shows the boat going sideways or backwards.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:41 PM   #6
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The boat going sideways or backwards sounds like your heading sensor. Is the display interfaced to an autopilot?
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:16 PM   #7
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It is, but that has nothing to do with it. The heading sensor points to the bow, as the autopilot, radar, etc. show. Each transducer has its own heading sensor, the magnetometer is three axis of the 9 that are tracked. Not sure of all the details but I know from other work that this is a difficult bit of software to get right, lots of thing affect the calibration and reading of them. It is possible in the settings to turn the AHRS function off, that straightens the plot out a little but it is still significantly off. I'm not sure what they are using to construct the image in that case. The heading sensor for the autopilot swings with less than 4 deg deviation, and seems accurate to about 2 degrees on any heading. The sonar will show the boat going sideways.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:43 PM   #8
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Heh. Life on the bleeding edge of marine electronics :-). I guess it's easy to get firmware updates these days.

I've just ordered a new Garmin MFD and digital radar and now am thinking about the fancy depth/scanning features. I'm inclined to get one of the transom mount units just to get a sense of capabilities. Maybe not optimal but cheap and easy to install. I wouldn't expect to rely on it at anything but slow speeds. Thoughts?
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW View Post
It is, but that has nothing to do with it. The heading sensor points to the bow, as the autopilot, radar, etc. show. Each transducer has its own heading sensor, the magnetometer is three axis of the 9 that are tracked. Not sure of all the details but I know from other work that this is a difficult bit of software to get right, lots of thing affect the calibration and reading of them. It is possible in the settings to turn the AHRS function off, that straightens the plot out a little but it is still significantly off. I'm not sure what they are using to construct the image in that case. The heading sensor for the autopilot swings with less than 4 deg deviation, and seems accurate to about 2 degrees on any heading. The sonar will show the boat going sideways.
I'm aware of how the unit works & what the unit does. I wasn't clear with regards to what your described problem is. When you said the boat was sometimes oriented incorrectly on the screen, I didn't know that you were talking about the sonar 3D picture. I thought you were also complaining of an incorrect chartplotter picture.
Good luck.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:10 AM   #10
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Heh. Life on the bleeding edge of marine electronics :-). I guess it's easy to get firmware updates these days.

I've just ordered a new Garmin MFD and digital radar and now am thinking about the fancy depth/scanning features. I'm inclined to get one of the transom mount units just to get a sense of capabilities. Maybe not optimal but cheap and easy to install. I wouldn't expect to rely on it at anything but slow speeds. Thoughts?
A transom-mounted transducer would probably surprise you in your case. I've seen lots of instances where single screw inboard boats were using that type of transducer. The down & outboard side-scanning features will probably work fine for you but obviously the inboard side-scanning picture will be affected by the propeller turbulence.
I agree with you on the cost issues of a pair of thru-hull transducers but it's just a personal gripe of mine when I see an inboard boat with a transom transducer installed...I shouldn't care if the owner is happy!
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff F View Post
Heh. Life on the bleeding edge of marine electronics :-). I guess it's easy to get firmware updates these days.

I've just ordered a new Garmin MFD and digital radar and now am thinking about the fancy depth/scanning features. I'm inclined to get one of the transom mount units just to get a sense of capabilities. Maybe not optimal but cheap and easy to install. I wouldn't expect to rely on it at anything but slow speeds. Thoughts?
If you are looking at a wide beam or side scan style transducer you might want to set up temporary mounting with a pole, or whatever, clamped to the transom or swim platform. Prop wash and even upstream protrusions (Scoop strainers, thru hulls, etc) from the hull can cause a bubble trail which shows up on your sonar. The temporary rig allows finding best view of the bottom before drilling any holes or 5200ing the transom.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:05 AM   #12
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After some further research I'm going with an in-hull mount. I think the basic CHIRP transducer will suit me just fine and will be an improvement over my existing sounder. I got caught up in the clearvu/sidevu hype but really don't need those capabilities. Thanks for the comments.
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Old 10-14-2018, 05:10 PM   #13
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Any bubbles do interfere with the view. If I put it in reverse for just a second, all I see is bubbles.

I'm sure the technology will get better - it always does - but standing here and looking back, I probably should have saved the $1500 odd. There are some times when it produces a pretty detailed picture (including seeing my anchor chain across the bottom at 30' deep), and other times when it is gibberish. Perhaps in time I'll be able to tell the difference and trust it.

I know from aircraft that magnetometers are very sensitive to stray EM fields, and it's pretty hard to find a place on the boat without them. I couldn't. Perhaps it would work better in an EM sterile environment. This is also only rev 3 of the LH3 software for Raymarine, the LH2 stuff only really got good after v12 or so and is now on v19. I've found plenty of bugs in LH3v3. The last update I put in updated the firmware in the transducers so maybe they'll continue. Yeah, these transducers have firmware!
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Old 10-16-2018, 08:42 AM   #14
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I got caught up in the clearvu/sidevu hype but really don't need those capabilities.
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I'm sure the technology will get better - it always does - but standing here and looking back, I probably should have saved the $1500 odd.
My points exactly. I don't need it where we most often operate the boat (shallow Chesapeake). I wouldn't mind the fun-factor if it were tweaked just right. But to have it be lackluster or constantly garbled would annoy the heck out of me and remind me of a bad purchasing decision...
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