Possible to forego genset?

[Marin]

(Steve-- Sent you a PM regarding GBs and generators)

 

[C lectric]

It is not necessary to have a generator. Enough has been said about how to avoid it. Try using the boat for the first year of anchoring before deciding. Many times you will move before the batteries need to be recharged.

The biggest thing is simply reduce power consumption to the minimum you are comfortable with. You have a decent battery set although it is not 1,000Ahr but rather 660Ahr. The propane stove is good, Led lights really help.
Solar definitely helps.

We have a 32' and do not have a gen. and I stopped carrying the portable 15 yrs ago. I have made changes to the basic boat electrical setup to do that. The personnal stuff you will have to sort out as you go. Some must have showers, other a good sponge bath knock the h.w. htr use in the head.

Talk to people and see their setups. Some don't care about gen use but lots do and have taken steps to avoid use of them even when they have them.

 

[markpierce]

If having a 120-amp alternator, what does that really mean? If perfectly matched with the engine turning 2400 RPM at wide-open-throttle, would it be producing that much? What are the odds of that? And if the engine turns at 1200 RPM, would it be producing 60 amps? ... Electricity is one of those concepts/things that befuddle me.

 

[Peter B]

Apart from engine on the move charging, we are self-sufficient on the pick indefinitely, courtesy of solar, (not huge), backed up with a wind gennie called and Airbreeze. It is efficient, silent enough not to bother anyone, and it all costs zip, zero, nuss-sing.
To make this possible we use no AC, have propane cooker/oven, almost all lights except running lights are now LED, (even those may become LED as replacement comes round), but underway who cares anyway...frig is 12 v, and we don't have TV. Don't want it...
If at any time in the future we found the system wanting, we would either add more solar...or, at the worst, as some others have suggested, a 2000w Honda gennie which would use the same gas we already have for our 2.5hp Honda outboard.

 

[FF]

You MUST have a noisemaker if you need to operate an air cond unit or two.

Otherwise there is no need , however the equipment selected to live aboard , not camp out, is different and very specific.

In other words much of the house junk will need to be replaced.

The biggest power hassle is refrigeration , and that is easily solved with an RV , or better an Amish style Servelle propane reefer.

Installation will require knowledge and care.The Servelle has thicker insulation, no electronics.

With propane aboard cooking is a snap 4 burner gymboled range and oven/broiler is OTS at sailboat outfitters.

Heat would be a Dickinson floor standard Antartic , or a second oil fired range like a Dickinson Pacific.

Neither require electric , choice is a matter of space.

Toilet,, pure mechanical with crap tank.

With LED lights interior lighting is a snap.

An 85W solar panel will assist , but requires a good charge controller.

Pressure water uses little DC power , but an OFF switch would be a good investment , and a foot pump will double or triple your tanks endurance.

The OTS marine hot water heater would have an engine loop ,good for a day or two, and/or a RV propane hot water heater for endless anchored out.

Our boat is outfitted mostly as described , sits on a mooring when required with cold beer ,ready for use .

Cruising we do not have dedicated house / start batteries , simply 2 #8D truck batteries with one secured at anchor..
We start the 6-71 with the in use (house supplier) and let it charge by it self till the voltage gets to 13.5 or 14V , then join the two batts.

Alt truck 135A with std external regulator.
IF our engine on time was very short a 3 or 4 stage V regulator would be installed.

I would recommend an SOC meter for most folks.

AC toys , radar oven , blender are handled with 1600W (2500surge) cheapo inverter under $200 and used perhaps 5 -10 min per day , if that..

Entertainment is auto AM ,FM + XM radio , tho a DC TV is aboard , for use mostly in seeing local weather .

$100 Car radios are remote control (Sony) and sound quality requires a good speaker set.

This has worked for a decade or so ,ran the loop left and right , and AICW many times with no dead batts ever.

And we Live Aboard while cruising , not camp out.

 

[ksanders]

It seems from the posts that much of the differences between the two camps on this issue (the no gen camp, and the gotta have a gen camp), come down to how you operate the boat, and your expectations.

We all recognize that if you cruise every day, or every couple of days, for a significant number of hours, you can probably get by without a generator and not compromise much.

You can go to great lengths to improve the electrical efficiency of your boat to minimize the need for electrical power. What this means is that you to some extent go without, or minimize the use of some of the modern conviences we have, such as electronics. (we did go to LED lighting to reduce power loads)

I chose a different route with our last boat. I recognized that at my stage in life I did not want to compromise. I did not want to "camp out" any more. What I wanted to do is to have a boat that has all the conviences of my land based home. Those conviences require electricity, and no small amount of it. To be honest I like my high speed satellite internet and phone. I like to watch a good movie in the evening. I also like a nice long hot shower in the morning. Yes, I even like my electric stove, since I have one at home.

To make our boat a true second home I decided to invest in a power generation system that would provide those conviences and not disturb the peace and quiet I also want. It was a significant investment, but one I'm glad to have made.

I can see if that we ever move to a larger boat, say in the 60+ foot range that there might become the need for a super quiet 24X7 generator. I do not have an issue with that as long as it can be done in a way that does not create a level of noise that would in it self be disturbing.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Kevin

I must be in the same stage in life as you. Since Bay Pelican is a power boat in a sail boat world, I am all for power, power to refrigerate ice cream, power to take a hot shower, power to wash dishes with hot water, power to make water and even power to watch TV.

Marty

 

[Edelweiss]

That must be it!! As kids growing up, we loved camping, but our parents moved from tents, to trailer, then a bigger trailer, a motor home and eventually a lake summer home. I have fond memories of those times (not the sponge baths out of a bucket), but have no desire to return to them.

I'm with you guys, sat. news, sports and communications. . . that hot morning shower, instant warm heat and electric galley, isn't something I'm willing to go without at this stage of my life either.

I know, I know. . . when that big asteroid hits the earth we'll all go back to living like mountain men. . . . But I will fight it every step of the way!!

 

[psneeld]

Powerboat...power.

The most annoying sounds in many anchorages are not the gensets..unless you just don't like gensets.

 

[HopCar]

If you need an air conditioner. you need a generator.

I'm in south Florida so in summer I really need the AC. I don't have room for a built in gen set so I make do with a Honda 2000i. It's not an ideal solution but it works for me. If I had the room for a real gen set, I'd spend the money.

 

[BruceK]

They are not essential, plenty of boats are set up to work comfortably without one.
But if I did not have one I could not use the domestic espresso machine kept onboard. Otherwise we need more battery and a big inverter. A/c would be an issue, if we had/need it,which we don`t.

 

[healhustler]

I have a Northern Lights/Lugger 4.5 KW on my boat, mounted just below the Galley. Having the genset there blocks access terribly to many other things, and any maintenance to the non-service side or control box of the genset requires contortions I'm no longer able to demand of myself. I've done a new hatch to move the genset below the veranda just forward of the lazerette, and have cleared and re-skinned my pilothouse roof for 8-10 solar panels. This was expensive, but I'm looking forward to using the florida and Caribbean sun to eliminate the genset usage as much as possible, perhaps only for A/C. I'm looking into solar hot water as well. These are the advantages of living in the sun.

 

[BruceK]

I have a Northern Lights/Lugger 4.5 KW ....I've .... cleared and re-skinned my pilothouse roof for 8-10 solar panels. This was expensive, but I'm looking forward to using the Florida and Caribbean sun to eliminate the genset usage as much as possible, perhaps only for A/C. I'm looking into solar hot water as well. These are the advantages of living in the sun.

How much house battery do you have? With 8-10 solar panels, depending on sizes, you`ll have some real output. Not heard of solar hot water on boats previously, except the simple black plastic water bag with gravity spray, hung in the sun absorbing rays. Should be possible,following domestic designs seen on roofs, maybe even using an existing storage tank.I agree a/c would be a big ask of solar.

 

[Bay Pelican]

I'm looking into solar hot water as well. These are the advantages of living in the sun.

Shouldn't be much of a problem to equip the boat with solar hot water provided you can run two hoses to the upper deck and reconnect them with your shower and a faucet. The folks in the Caribbean have all sorts of holding devices for solar water, all black, the most useful for your purpose would be either a flat plastic tank, say 5 gallons or a flat series of plastic pipes. Either would require additional real estate exposed to the sun.



Marty

 

[healhustler]

How much house battery do you have? With 8-10 solar panels, depending on sizes, you`ll have some real output.

I'll end up with 1000-1350 watts, and for now I still have two wet cell 8D's but when we start full time cruising, I'l probably opt for some gels. I've seen some solar hot-water panels about the same size as regular panels, but when you've got a dedicated hot water panel like that, one would have to be able to remove or reposition the panel when away from the boat. Otherwise, it will just keep producing hot water, and the circulatory and storage system would have to be working as well.

 

[FF]

>If having a 120-amp alternator, what does that really mean?<

Depends , if its a car style alt it will produce 120A at perhaps 12V, when just started.

Warm it may only produce 75A , and even less if battery charging (14V) is required.

A higher quality alt will produce 120A at 14+V , but it will be larger , probably require 2 belts and cost up to $1000 for a quality unit.

Most folks will settle for a big truck alt $150 for 135A and install a better for battery charging V regulator with a temperature sensor.

The output of most alts can be had above idle ,very high speeds are not required for full output.

 

[hmason]

A generator is like a microwave. If you don't have one you don't miss it. Once you have one, you can't live without it. Our boats consume more and more electricity as time goes by. We now have electronic navigation, cell phones to charge, laptops to use, a tv to keep up with the news and my favorite shows, refrigeration, ice maker, heat, AC if you cruise south, hair dryers for the admiral, perhaps an electric stove and oven, lighting and on and on.

I have owned Grand Banks for going on 20 years and have many friends with GBs. It is rare to see a GB on the east coast without a genny. The first time you can't start an engine because you ran down the batteries you will wish you had a genset. If you want to enjoy the cruising experience, don't spend a single sleepless night worrying about power management. If camping is your "thing" you sure don't need a GB. This is of course my very opinionated opinion. Now excuse me as I want to have a hot shower.

 

[FF]

>The first time you can't start an engine because you ran down the batteries you will wish you had a genset.>

I would be wishing for a qualified person to install a proper electrical system.

Stoopidity with the house systems is no reason for a dead boat.

< We now have electronic navigation, cell phones to charge, laptops to use, a tv to keep up with the news and my favorite shows, refrigeration, ice maker, heat, AC if you cruise south, hair dryers for the admiral, perhaps an electric stove and oven, lighting and on and on. >

These are all items that can be handled many ways.

A noisemaker to charge a cellphone?

 

[hmason]

Ha, ha. That's really funny. You forgot about the hot shower. Oh, let me guess, you have one of those solar water bags you leave in the sun.

 

[sunchaser]

So there you have it OP - for comfort, convenience, all systems battery charging, safety and charging your cell phone buy a boat with a genset. Don't forget to isolate the genset's starting battery from all other loads or your wife's hair dryer or kids late night TV watching could render the above niceties moot.

 

[markpierce]

Genset: another engine and its related paraphernalia to acquire, maintain, fail, and repair.

 

[psneeld]

And to provide things nothing else on a reasonable sized boat can manage easily.

About 2 hrs maintenance per year...maybe an extra 2 hrs every 2-3 years for cyclical maintenance.....product lasts decades with minimal care.....the portable Hondas are even less maintenance.

Anyone that doesn't use air conditioning/heat on a regular basis and lives aboard or cruises extensively....doesn't get it...most of the rest of us understand.

 

[markpierce]

... and most of you have twin propulsion engines and a flying bridge. That's OK with me. I'm used to being in the minority.

 

[psneeld]

venture out of the SF area on something other than a cruise ship and then let's talk about luxuries/necessities.

 

[Codger2]

venture out of the SF area on something other than a cruise ship and then let's talk about luxuries/necessities.

Good point!

 

[markpierce]

Can you believe it? Some people think they need an all-electric kitchen to feel at home on a boat!

 

[FF]

>About 2 hrs maintenance per year...maybe an extra 2 hrs every 2-3 years for cyclical maintenance.....product lasts decades with minimal care.....the portable Hondas are even less maintenance.<

Some noisemakers I have seen take 2 hours to get the sound box open enough to do a by Da Book service.

Perhaps we can kill this fantasy with a Total Genset Cost per hour or per KW posting.

My Eyeball is about $10 per hour of operation ,all up costs.

Yes the better gas units like the Honda are far better per hour..

 

[Bay Pelican]

Per hour operating costs (US dollars) of Bay Pelican's 8kw 27 year old Westerbeke:

Fuel: $4.50
Impeller .15
Oil filter .06
Oil .20
Racor .35
Fuel filters .20
Heat Exch .80
Coolant .03

Total $6.39 per hour

These are just the everyday items. In the last 15 years I have spent $7,000 (US) on repairs, most of it when the AC portion of the generator had to be replaced.

With this in mind, I love my solar panels and wind generator, and using two chargers load my generator when it is operating.

Marty

 

[Edelweiss]

Per hour operating costs (US dollars) of Bay Pelican's 8kw 27 year old Westerbeke:

Fuel: $4.50
Impeller .15
Oil filter .06
Oil .20
Racor .35
Fuel filters .20
Heat Exch .80
Coolant .03
Total $6.39 per hour

I thought about doing this too, but since you took care of it I can adjust for the difference in fuel cost and I am good!!! I'm not sure of the fuel usage per hour. Not enough load, no AC, is usually the issue for me, so I think I'm less. But I'll go with your 1 gal per hour.

Onan 7.5 kw 36 years old
Total $5.65 per hour

p.s. All routine maintenance, coolant, checking and changing oil, and all filters is performed by opening the sound shield front service panel. Turn five twist clips and lift the panel off. if you need access to the starter, the back panel is eight twist lock machine screws and is less than 5 minutes to remove.

 

[markpierce]

Per hour operating costs (US dollars) of Bay Pelican's 8kw 27 year old Westerbeke:

Fuel: $4.50
Impeller .15
Oil filter .06
Oil .20
Racor .35
Fuel filters .20
Heat Exch .80
Coolant .03

Total $6.39 per hour

These are just the everyday items. In the last 15 years I have spent $7,000 (US) on repairs, most of it when the AC portion of the generator had to be replaced.

With this in mind, I love my solar panels and wind generator, and using two chargers load my generator when it is operating.

Marty

Really? That's approaching the per-hour propulsion cost of the Coot.