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Old 04-07-2013, 05:26 PM   #21
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The purpose of an Inverter is to change DC voltage into usable AC voltage, the difference is in how the AC current is presented to the device. That is the difference between modified sine and true sine AC voltage. DC current is always DC current, only the voltage varies, there is no sine wave in DC. The device receiving the AC current is the variable...
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:32 PM   #22
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True Sine converters are the ticket for charging Lithium Ion batteries. Battery technologies are evolving and the battery manufacturers specifically state that true sine is required for proper charging................
That's just wrong. Batteries require DC current for charging. It doesn't matter how it got to be DC.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:56 PM   #23
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The charging unit or power supply cares what kind of current it receives. If it was designed for AC most people would rather use an inverter than to make a DC to DC charging unit. The battery is charged from AC converted to DC (in the charger) and discharges as DC. The battery charger is designed for AC and cares what kind of AC sine wave it receives. We are talking about using things from shore where AC is readily available (as true sine) and taking them to sea where it is not.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:54 PM   #24
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OK...I'll ask again...what type of DC current is put out of a Modified Sine Wave Inverter/Charger?

Is it pulsed? Variable? What? How is it different than DC from a Pure Sine Wave Inverter /Charger/
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:14 PM   #25
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No DC current comes out of an inverter. AC current is created by the inverter from DC power so that appliances designed to operate on AC can be used off of a battery bank. A modified sine inverter is an inexpensive alternative to proper AC sine wave power. Some appliances will not like operating on a modified sine since they were designed for on shore wall plug power (true sine). AC is converted back into DC when a battery charger for items like power tools are charged. It is a loss of efficiency, but you get to use things from the house on your boat. Which is the point.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:15 PM   #26
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There is no sine in DC, it is a part of AC power, only.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:22 PM   #27
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There is no sine in DC, it is a part of AC power, only.
This is your post #10

True Sine converters are the ticket for charging Lithium Ion batteries. Battery technologies are evolving and the battery manufacturers specifically state that true sine is required for proper charging. I am not saying they won't charge, I am just saying the manufacturer won't warranty their batteries if they find out you used a modified sine converter. I really like doing things the right way the first time, it usually cost less in the long run.

I lost track and was thinking a inverter/charger you were talking about.

I see you said converter...OK...so how is the DC from a sine wave converter different from a modified sine converter when charging Lithium Ion Batteries?
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:34 PM   #28
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You are thinking too hard, it is really simple. DC goes into the Inverter from your batteries and makes one of two kinds of AC, either pure sine or modified sine. This is primarily a function of the cost of building an Inverter and the end purpose of the power dictates whether you should spend more for pure sine. The chargers are all designed for pure sine, that is all you can get out of an outlet on shore. Modified sine is not what modern electronics are designed for, more so all of the time. The electronics in the power supplies for chargers and other items are more and more of an issue.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:42 PM   #29
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The charger may damage the batteries, the charger electronics may be damaged and damage the batteries or the charger. Modified sine is a cheap imitation of what things are designed to operate on.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:44 PM   #30
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I see you said converter...OK...so how is the DC from a sine wave converter different from a modified sine converter when charging Lithium Ion Batteries?
Inverter=DC in, AC out.
Shore Power Charger=AC in, DC out
Converter=DC in, DC out.

There is no sine wave associated with DC.

What is this DC sine wave converter you speak of?
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:58 AM   #31
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Unbelievable...go back and read post #10...then the string of my posts.

I KNOW what inverters are for and how they work...I'm just trying to figure out how the DC end of things is different so how Lithium ION batteries are charged "BETTER" by a pure sine wave converter as sated in post #10.

"True Sine converters are the ticket for charging Lithium Ion batteries"...

I think the DC output is just the same so why the statement by AKDoug
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:50 AM   #32
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It is unbelievable :-) AC comes either true sine or modified sine, everything coming out of a wall socket is true sine. The equipment used to charge a battery or operate a power supply is designed for (normal) pure sine power. It is the equipment that handles the power conversion that is damaged by modified sine. The computers that tell your battery charger how much to put in, how fast, and tell it when it is done charging, that can be damaged by modified sine. Everything has a computer in it anymore, that's why they call them smart chargers... It is better for charging the batteries because the charging equipment was designed for it. Modified sine is like cheap gas, it works, but has issues down the road.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:00 PM   #33
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It is unbelievable :-) AC comes either true sine or modified sine, everything coming out of a wall socket is true sine. The equipment used to charge a battery or operate a power supply is designed for (normal) pure sine power. It is the equipment that handles the power conversion that is damaged by modified sine. The computers that tell your battery charger how much to put in, how fast, and tell it when it is done charging, that can be damaged by modified sine. Everything has a computer in it anymore, that's why they call them smart chargers... It is better for charging the batteries because the charging equipment was designed for it. Modified sine is like cheap gas, it works, but has issues down the road.
No modified sine inverter has ever hurt any laptop that I know of and dozens of my friends and hundreds of boaters I deal with never had an issue either....seems like the power cords handle it fine producing plain old DC for the lithium batteries in the laptop.

I have to say it again...I KNOW what comes out of an inverter...I was from the very first ONLY focused on your statement ...

""True Sine converters are the ticket for charging Lithium Ion batteries"...

Just how are they the ticket?????? if they ALL produce plain old DC?

And most of us know that computerized cars now handle "cheap gas" just fine...even better than in the old days.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:13 PM   #34
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Do what you want. It would pay to read the fine print on your electronic equipment so that you don't damage it or void your warranties. Batteries and chargers are different than they used to be. The bottom line is that modified sine is a cheap imitation of the power your equipment was designed to operate on. It is available only as a means to reduce the cost of manufacturing an Inverter.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:08 PM   #35
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Here is a small pure sine inverter that runs off a lighter socket. Haven't tried it, but have been thinking about purchasing one to charge the laptop, phones, etc. while underway or on the hook and not running the genny: PST-15S-12A - Samlex America 150 Watt Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter - DonRowe.com
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:10 PM   #36
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Unbelievable...go back and read post #10...then the string of my posts.

I KNOW what inverters are for and how they work...I'm just trying to figure out how the DC end of things is different so how Lithium ION batteries are charged "BETTER" by a pure sine wave converter as sated in post #10.

"True Sine converters are the ticket for charging Lithium Ion batteries"...

I think the DC output is just the same so why the statement by AKDoug
Here is an unadulterated quote from post 10.

"Many electronic charging devices will only work properly with a true sine wave inverter. Many of the small cheap inverters are modified sine wave and may not work well with your computer."

Either you're misquoting OC Diver from post 10 or OC Diver changed his post. He does not mention "True Sine converters are the ticket for charging Lithium Ion batteries"... Where are you getting this?

There is no such thing as a true sine converter...except maybe in your imagination.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:46 PM   #37
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Here is an unadulterated quote from post 10.

"Many electronic charging devices will only work properly with a true sine wave inverter. Many of the small cheap inverters are modified sine wave and may not work well with your computer."

Either you're misquoting OC Diver from post 10 or OC Diver changed his post. He does not mention "True Sine converters are the ticket for charging Lithium Ion batteries"... Where are you getting this?

There is no such thing as a true sine converter...except maybe in your imagination.
Sorry...AK post #16...
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:33 PM   #38
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............ The equipment used to charge a battery or operate a power supply is designed for (normal) pure sine power.............
Allow me to make one small correction to that statement and we may be able to end this argument.

"The equipment used to charge a battery or operate a power supply MAY be designed for (normal) pure sine power"

How's that?
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