Passing and being passed

[Moonstruck]

Thought for the benefit of some of our newer members and boat owners that this would be a good thread to revive. *There is some good discussion on passing and being passed. *In narrow channels, giving a good pass is important. The overtaken boat can also make it go better. *So, give a good pass. *The guy you pass may be your slipmate tonight.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

When we had our sea trial on this boat, as my husband was driving he would*glance around and*behind regularly.* The surveyor said "you don't have to look behind you, you have the right of way over anyone overtaking you."* SERIOUSLY???*

* That is crazy talk, IMO.

 

[markpierce]

Pineapple Girl wrote:
* SERIOUSLY???*

* That is crazy talk, IMO.

*Definitely.* That's why I wanted a pilothouse with 360-degree visibility.* It's amazing how ships have a habit of sneaking up from behind.

 

[Marin]

The first thing that a boater should do is read the Colregs. This will expose them officially to the fact that there is no "right of way" in boating. There is stand on and give way. But unless I've misinterpreted what I've read--- and that's certainly possible--- this whole "right of way" notion is bogus.

I assume this is because "right of way" implies that someone is totally and legally in the right even if they end up being run into or are caused to run into someone else. Since boats generally have much more latitude in maneuvering to avoid other boats than cars have to avoid other cars on a road, it is the responsibility for both vessels to avoid a collision. But you do need "rules" to serve as a consistent guideline, but guidelines are not "rights."

But more and more boaters seem to equate driving a boat with driving a car (even to more and more boaters in my observation using their bow thrusters to steer even in open water). So they get all hung up on this "right of way" business when in reality there is no such thing.

 

[markpierce]

These guys are about the worse, seen here last Friday near Red Rock (south of the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge.)* I hadn't taken his wake seriously enough and rolled heavily.* Good thing the glasses were in the sink.* After passing from behind, he turned around about a mile out and reversed course.* I was prepared for the second pass.


-- Edited by markpierce on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 01:50:43 PM

 

[Marin]

markpierce wrote:
These guys are about the worse....

Several years ago I and my crew spent two full days filming everything that moved at JFK International Airport.* The purpose was to obtain a large library of high-def footage of our products being used by a variety of our customers.* So we shot on the runways (literally ON the runways) the taxiways, the ramps, in the control tower, you name it.

We were transported around by two New York Port Authority guys, one in the morning and the other in the afternoon.* They drove us around in a big black Suburban.* And--- since it was the Port Authority--- it was their airport.* They answered to no one.* We drove (usually at about 60 mph) down active taxiways weaving between lined up planes.* We blasted across ramps behind, in front of, and under the wings of taxiing airplanes.* We tore across the grass infields between the runways and taxiways.* We even rocketed down the active runways during the gaps between arriving and departing airplanes.

They were on the radio constantly talking to the tower, but nevertheless they went wherever they wanted whenever they wanted.* It wasn't a matter of "Ground Control, we would like to....." it was "Ground Control we are going to...."

The point of this is that's what your photo is all about.* That's their bay they're blasting around on.* The guys driving are the equivelent of our Port Authority drivers.* Everything else on the bay is simply something not to run into.* But it's their bay.

 

[markpierce]

Marin wrote:* But it's their bay.

*They act as if it is.

 

[motion30]

moon struck I believe you passed me several times this fall Oct was it?

 

[psneeld]

Pineapple Girl wrote:
When we had our sea trial on this boat, as my husband was driving he would*glance around and*behind regularly.* The surveyor said "you don't have to look behind you, you have the right of way over anyone overtaking you."* SERIOUSLY???*

* That is crazy talk, IMO.

*Not crazy talk..pretty much accurate...on many vessels you can't see anything astern from the wheelhouse anyhow... so*ANY other vessel has to steer clear of you when they are*overtaking.


-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 06:06:59 PM

 

[markpierce]

psneeld wrote:
*Not crazy talk..pretty much accurate...on many vessels you can't see anything astern from the wheelhouse anyhow... so*ANY other vessel has to steer clear of you when they are*overtaking.

*Yeah, tell that to the master of the ship overtaking you.

 

[psneeld]

In a narrow channel... of course I would have to get out of the way (rule 9) but in open water that ship will probably steer well clear if he sees me (have it happen plenty) and they don't want any issues answering questions to the USCG.* Of course it's a big assumption that they see you so if I know Im in their usual course to a known destination I'll steer a course out of their way.

 

[markpierce]

That's my point.* Anyway, in the San Francisco estuary, moving ships are always in a narrow channel.* They are uncontrollable (but lovable) beasts, and it is*up to us to stay clear of them.


-- Edited by markpierce on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 06:41:45 PM

 

[Moonstruck]

motion30 wrote:
moon struck I believe you passed me several times this fall Oct was it?

We left Hilton Head for Fort Pierce on Nov. 5. *So, yes, we could have passed you several times. *Lou was having trouble with her shoulder, so we would take some time off along the way. *We let her rest up at Jekyll Island and Daytona. She slept mostly from New Smyrna to Ft. Pierce. That put us passing some of the same boats. *I hope we gave you a good pass. *We try to be courteous in doing the ICW. *Moonstruck is not a hard boat to recognize. *Capt. Mike on "the little Defever" said we passed him on the way North.

 

[koliver]

This guy always has the right of way.

 

[Moonstruck]

Since we have been talking about passing and courtesy, here is an old thread that may be of interest to some of the newer members.

 

[Moonstruck]

There has been much discussion on wakes and passing going on. Since the last post on this thread was in Nov. 2012, I thought that there may be some merit in bringing it up again. We have many new members that may be able to add to what has already been discussed. Looking over the thread could be of benefit to some.

 

[Sunset]

Thank you Moonstruck - as a new member and noobie trawlerite I enjoyed reading through this thread. These passing conventions are not taught in the boating courses I've taken and not yet being active in the boating community, I have been unsure of the proper passing protocol.

 

[Moonstruck]

Thank you Moonstruck - as a new member and noobie trawlerite I enjoyed reading through this thread. These passing conventions are not taught in the boating courses I've taken and not yet being active in the boating community, I have been unsure of the proper passing protocol.

Quite right! I have taught boating courses. The course material and time allotted leave little time for added material. Most boating courses for the general public teach just enough to keep you legal. Experience and forums like this can be a big help. Of course, your knowing what to do does not mean others will.

 

[BriBri]

This thread has been a very interesting read. I am very familiar with what the COLREGs say on this matter, but I find it interesting that the 'locals' in my home port seem to have this unwritten 'rule of the road' as it concerns passing particularly head-on. My boat is docked about 2 miles up a winding river at a yacht club that has quite a few boats (paticularly smaller CCs and sportfishermen). The river has a relatively narrow channel, but with decent channel markers each within sight of each other (MLLW is about 7 feet). When I first started going up/down this river I used my horn almost always when passing a boat or meeting one head-on. I never once got a response from their vessel (which was most likely heading to/from my yacht club). One day, I asked one of the 'old-timers' at my dock what the deal was. He then explained to me the 'unwritten' rules that most of the experienced boaters followed on the river based on mutual understanding/agreement. The 'rules' made sense (i.e. passing port-to-port when meeting head-on, passing the channel markers on your port side, and overtaking a vessel to its starboard side). I accepted these rules readily enough. But as someone said in a previous post, I am still very keen on observing a boat's behavior because you never know if chimpanzees are driving it.

So, when (if at all) are 'unwritten rules' of the locals acceptable, versus COLREGS or inland rules? If I cruise in unfamiliar waters, should I be obligated to learn these unwritten rules or else draw the wrath of the locals?

 

[markpierce]

According to California Boating Law (and like the ColRegs) "When motorboats are in sight of one another and meeting or crossing at a distance within half a mile of each other, each vessel shall indicate its intended maneuvers with the following signals ..."

This rule is rarely followed among pleasure craft or between pleasure and commercial vessels. If there is a possibility of collision, the usual practice is to make your actions clear by a course/speed adjustment, hopefully by the burdened vessel. It's more like the "dance" among pedestrians on a busy sidewalk. Thus, it was interesting to hear five short blasts (what the heck are you doing!) by some (probably commercial) boat in the strait while we were out of sight at a nearby berth. That's extremely rare.

No signal given; none expected (but at least there was an observant/interested crewmember):

 

[rclarke246]

Rules- written & unwitten

As a boater with some limited experience but now becoming fully immersed, this has been an insightful thread indeed!

We'll be taking Lady Di from Annapolis to Marco Island in the fall of 2014 and the information and experiences, like the ones posted here, may serve to flatten our steep learning curve.

My dear old Dad used to say: "Right is right, and everything else is wrong."

We really care about having fun and the satisfaction of doing it right. So many questions!

Thanks in advance, "old salts".

 

[rwidman]

........... So, when (if at all) are 'unwritten rules' of the locals acceptable, versus COLREGS or inland rules? If I cruise in unfamiliar waters, should I be obligated to learn these unwritten rules or else draw the wrath of the locals?

The "locals" will be following their own unwritten rules (or no rules at all). If you're operating a 40' or less pleasure boat and blow your horn, the likely response will be a hand signal with just one finger raised.

That's not to say you shouldn't use your horn to warn of danger, just remember that 90% of the recreational boaters you meet will have no idea why you are blowing the horn.

"Regulation", yes. "Reality" no.