Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-05-2012, 08:39 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
xfedex's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: usa
Vessel Name: Fluke
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 131
Paper Charts

I use paper charts to double check my Nobletec running on a laptop. I do not update the paper IAW notice to mariners. They were accurate in 1984 but not today. *

It is true that buoys have been added and numbers on buoys have changed. I am trying to think of something changing on paper that would really be a need to know item. The substantial relocation of a marker or buoy *would be significant I think.*

My travels are in Washington and British Columbia.*Am I in the minority as far as not religiously updating paper charts?
__________________
Advertisement

xfedex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 09:25 PM   #2
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar


 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,505
RE: Paper Charts

Judging from my sales of paper charts I'd say you're in the minority for even having a paper chart. Your charts were not accurate in 1984. Charts have errors on them the day they are printed. You just have to be aware of that and keep your eyes open. Don't forget that electronic charts have errors also. That said, if I was going somewhere I wasn't familiar with, I'd want a fresh chart.
__________________

HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 09:33 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Jay N's Avatar
 
City: Edmonds, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: WESTERLY
Vessel Model: 1974 Pacific Trawler 37
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 387
RE: Paper Charts

My chart porfolio for our cruising waters includes charts dated back as far as 1964, and includes charts dated 2011.

Every year we buy a select number of new paper charts to add.

Of course, it's important to understand that basically the rocks/reefs do not change, but the ATON'S might.*

So the navigation challenge is to compare all charted aids with observed aids, and then make a quick correction, if required.* What happens is that this process greatly*improve situational awareness, which has a positive effect on safety.

So, the answer is that paper charts are not kept up-to-date until used.* Our electronic charts are updated weekly (at least for US waters).
Jay N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 11:24 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
weebobby's Avatar
 
City: Cochrane, Alberta
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Painters Cove
Vessel Model: 1997 Bayliner 5788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 88
RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
Jay N wrote:
My chart porfolio for our cruising waters includes charts dated back as far as 1964, and includes charts dated 2011.

Every year we buy a select number of new paper charts to add.

Of course, it's important to understand that basically the rocks/reefs do not change, but the ATON'S might.*

So the navigation challenge is to compare all charted aids with observed aids, and then make a quick correction, if required.* What happens is that this process greatly*improve situational awareness, which has a positive effect on safety.

So, the answer is that paper charts are not kept up-to-date until used.* Our electronic charts are updated weekly (at least for US waters).
*But previously uncharted rocks/reefs are still being found..........
weebobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 01:13 AM   #5
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
xfedex wrote:

My travels are in Washington and British Columbia.*Am I in the minority as far as not religiously updating paper charts?
Don't know.* But we use paper charts at all times when we're cruising, along with our two large dedicated GPS chart plotters and the radar.* We do not update the charts as land masses don't move much around here and it's been our experience and observation in this area that navaids---on shore or in the water--- rarely change.

We have a chart board next to the helm that holds the big MapTech format chart books we have for Puget Sound, the Gulf Islands, Sunshine Coast, Desolation Sound, etc.* Plus we have all the full size NOAA and Canadian charts for the entire area from the San Juans up to Queen Charlotte Strait rolled up and stored in the aft cabin.* We rarely use the full-size charts unless we're in an area not covered by one of the big chartbooks.

We like having the paper charts at the helm because we can get the "big picture" in an instant without having to zoom in or out, and there is less clutter on the paper charts than on the electronic charts displays simply by virtue of the size difference.*

We do not plot courses except for those that we use frequently, and we plotted them on the paper charts years ago.* But having these courses on paper is a good backup in case the electronics go down, which they never have in the 13 years we've owned the boat.

So while our primary means of navigation are the two plotters, the radar, and the compass, we do find the paper charts useful on almost every cruise.

Both my wife and I like and are very much at home with paper charts, me from flying and my wife from both flying and her stint in the Navy.* So we just like having them around.

To someone who doesn't like messing with paper charts, or doesn't like them, or doesn't believe in them, the reliability of electronics these days makes it very unlikely that a failure will leave a person blind.* So I don't have any issue with people who say they don't have any paper charts on board and use only electronics.

But we wouldn't take the boat out--- actually either boat because we use paper on the Arima, too, along with its GPS plotter--- without having the paper charts with us.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 03:45 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 381
RE: Paper Charts

what about wrecks?
tinped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 04:24 AM   #7
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
RE: Paper Charts

In coastal areas we use the paper charts , and at displacement speeds its no bother to x the old buoy number and write in the new one.

A small hand held GPS gives position and route .

Some ICW charts from the late 60's have 5 or 6 re-numberings per location , but then we don't travel every year.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 07:27 AM   #8
Guru
 
RCook's Avatar


 
City: Holladay, UT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dream Catcher
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-065
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 503
RE: Paper Charts

FWIW, there are several completely new, and much higher quality, charts for the central BC coast in the last several years.
RCook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 08:27 AM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 89
RE: Paper Charts

What the hell?* Doesnt anyone here use Notices to Mariners??


I would assume ( I know makes an ass out of U and me ) that everyone on this thread uses* the internet once in a while.* Doesnt anyone receive CHS Notices to Mariners ? *They will email you with changes to CHS charts.


Try checking out :


http://www.notmar.gc.ca/


http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/notices-avis-eng.htm


*


Fill out the email forum for personal notification of changes on the water and changes to charts:


http://www.notmar.gc.ca/search/mycharts-eng.php


*


Use the lists on the LHS of the pages above to get updates to charts you already possess.


Click on the Chart No. (underlined) on the list below, to make sure you are looking for the chart you want:


http://www.charts.gc.ca/charts-carte...=CatalogueList


*


For Washington and SEA boaters:


http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/s...hartspubs.html


List of Charts to view:


http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineVie...werTable.shtml


http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineVie...werTable.shtml


*


Yr Wlelcome!


Old_Surly to bed Yadda-Yadda
Old_Salt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 10:58 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
yachtbrokerguy's Avatar


 
City: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Model: I have keys to lots of boats...
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 469
Paper Charts

I own paper charts from Texas to Maine and will bring them with me for a delivery, they are old and do not have all the updates but I can use them for planning much easier than a plotter. Many of the boats I am moving will have newer paper charts, but I like to use my own personal charts because I have written many comments about the Intracoastal, about shoaling areas, changes of markers, good restaurants, bridge clearances and names, and more.


-- Edited by yachtbrokerguy on Friday 6th of January 2012 11:59:43 AM
yachtbrokerguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 11:17 AM   #11
TF Site Team
 
Pineapple Girl's Avatar
 
City: San Mateo, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Pineapple Girl II
Vessel Model: PT 35
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,165
RE: Paper Charts

Around the SF bay we rarely break out the paper charts.*

In the Delta last summer we always had a paper "chart" out.* I have "chart" in quotes as we notced after we started using it that it was marked "not for navigation".* This is one of those Maptech ones that folds up like a map you'd have had in your car back in the day.* I have already been shopping for NOAA CHARTS of the area for when we go back this summer.* I was looking at the Print on Demand which seem to be as up to date as anything is going to be.* Many times the GPS/CP was enough off to get us in trouble if we weren't watching the paper as well.*

If I was going somewhere new to me I would definitely want recent*paper charts to cross reference with my GPS/CP.

Depending where we are going we will check for notice to mariner info.* in particular there is a sometimes gaurded exclusionary zone on the way to the delta at the Naval Weapons depot.* We check if the zone is in force and how the alternate channel is marked (yuo have to go outside the regular channel to stay outside the zone).* Young people with large guns will come over and yell at you if you are not in the correct place.
Pineapple Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 01:24 PM   #12
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Paper Charts

Quote:
tinped wrote:
what about wrecks?
Since we're usually in water that's 200-600 feet deep, a wreck is not something we lose any sleep over.* We have boats that go up on the rocks now and then but since we don't make a habit of navigating through the same rocks, their fate is of no consequence to us.* And*most if not all of these boats are eventually recovered one way or the other.

If I recall correctly the water under our keel when I took the attached photo was some 800' deep.* And it was probably 100' deep a boat length or two from either shoreline.* So wrecks don't seem to pose any sort of navigational issue around here, at least not that I've ever heard.


*


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 6th of January 2012 03:20:36 PM
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	05-toward vondonop 1.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	58.7 KB
ID:	9343  
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 01:36 PM   #13
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
Pineapple Girl wrote:
*I have "chart" in quotes as we notced after we started using it that it was marked "not for navigation".* This is one of those Maptech ones that folds up like a map you'd have had in your car back in the day.*
I would have thought with all the boating activity in SFO that there would be a large MapTech-type chartbook available for the bay, river, delta, etc.* The big chart books--- if you have the space to lay them out--- are great.* I've posted this photo before but it shows how our portable*"chart table" fits over the companionway to the forward cabin.* Very handy.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	helm station.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	174.0 KB
ID:	9344  
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 01:55 PM   #14
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,170
RE: Paper Charts

what about wrecks?

*

In BC, if the wreck is in a "fairway"* it has to get removed.* Almost everywhere else, as Marin points out, is either a known hazard, so you won't go there, or is so deep that the wreck is of no consequence.

If the wreck is insured, the insurance co will salvage, to determine whether it was an intentional or accidental wreck.
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 02:30 PM   #15
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
Marin wrote:I've posted this photo before but it shows how our portable*"chart table" fits over the companionway to the forward cabin.* Very handy.
* * * * Same here but mine is hinged.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	img_3857.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	109.8 KB
ID:	9345   Click image for larger version

Name:	img_0170.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	94.6 KB
ID:	9346  
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 02:53 PM   #16
Guru
 
Capn Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 899
RE: Paper Charts

Like Marin, we have our paper charts out when we are cruising. Not so much when we are puttering around in local waters. Many, many, many times we refer to the paper charts to view and clarify things that don't show on our plotter or computer, both of which we also have running when under way. You just can't have too much information. Chuck
Capn Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 03:30 PM   #17
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
RE: Paper Charts

With GPS/charter and radar on, I usually have the paper chart out too.* The paper chart gives me a larger view while the electronic chart has more detail when zoomed in.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	chart.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	183.8 KB
ID:	9347  
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 09:16 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Jay N's Avatar
 
City: Edmonds, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: WESTERLY
Vessel Model: 1974 Pacific Trawler 37
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 387
RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
weebobby wrote:
*
*But previously uncharted rocks/reefs are still being found..........

Even if you have your charts updated weekly, and listen to broadcast notice to mariners (US) and regularly monitor Ch 16 for safety transmissions, you* always run the risk that you will find something that no one else has found.

But the odds are very, very slight, especially in this age of surveying with side-scan sonar, etc.

On the other hand, I am not as trusting of certain SE Alaska charts.* There are still a few that note survey information gathered by the Russians in the 1800's.
Jay N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 07:00 AM   #19
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,849
RE: Paper Charts

We use the belt, suspenders, and probably te elastic band system. *When not running radar, we use the second display to display a large area of the chart to keep up with our progress. *The first display is zoomed in to show as much detaiil as possible. *Then there is the paper chart in front of the navigator station under a Lexan cover.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	cimg0104.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	60.0 KB
ID:	9377  
Moonstruck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 09:48 AM   #20
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,712
RE: Paper Charts

When I designed and built this boat I made the "dashboard" large enough and slanted so I could use a large chart while underway. One can fold a chart in thirds and so you deed'nt "run" right next to a fold, fold it in half also. As for chart storage my Albin had a good recommendation. Under the bunk mattress. But they will get a little black mould on them in damp places like SEA over time.

Eric
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sth71821.jpg
Views:	77
Size:	158.7 KB
ID:	9380  
__________________

Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Micron rating for ordinary toilet paper markpierce Power Systems 31 07-23-2012 04:36 PM
Canadian Charts bobc Electrical and Electronics & Navigation 15 03-08-2012 01:47 AM
Published White Paper cautions about over filtration of diesel fuel. healhustler General Maintenance 2 10-24-2011 03:30 PM
Bahamas Charts timjet Cruising and Events - East Coast 4 09-24-2011 04:05 PM
Bahamas charts Chrisjs Classifieds 3 07-19-2011 08:23 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012