Paper Charts

[Delia Rosa]

Doug wrote:
Not sure about the US but in Canada you are required to carry the most recent editions of largest scale chart of the areas you are navigating. Charts must be paper. ENCs or RNCs on a chartplotter to not suffice.*

For smaller vessels this requirement may be waived if the skipper can prove he has extensive local knowledge (shipping routes, lights, buoys and marks, and prevailing navigational conditions)

I suspect it would be hard* to prove to your insurance company that you had sufficient local knowledge after hitting a rock without the appropriate charts onboard.

Doug, I thought paper charts were mandatory too, however there seems to be a slight change in the rules. *It appears that charts may now be in electronic form if displayed on an ECDIS using ENC or RNC but there must be a back-up arrangement in the case of failure of the ECDIS.* This back-up arrangement must be a completely separate electronic system meeting approved IMO performance standards or the backup can be the aforementioned paper charts!
*

 

[Marin]

In addition to the big MapTech-type charbooks and various guidebooks we have the US and Canadian sailing directions that include Puget Sound and the BC coast. While big and bulky, the sailing directions books have come in very handy at times. Well worth having on board in my opinion, no matter where you boat.

 

[Delia Rosa]

Edelweiss wrote:
I asked my*cousin in Vancouver,*works for*Environment Canada,*and he says paper charts are not required under 100 gross tons for pleasure boats and here is the*regulation per Environment Canada.* He also said local knowledge or available reference material such as chart book, tide book, or chartplotter would be acceptable.

"To help make navigation safer, you must carry the following for each area you plan to boat in:
<ul>[*]the latest edition of the largest scale chart (when available); and[*]the latest edition of related documents and publications, including Notices to Mariners, Sailing Directions, tide and current tables, and the List of Lights, Buoys and Fog Signals.[/list]
"If you are operating a boat under 100 gross tons, you do not have to carry these charts, documents and publications on board as long as you know:"
<ul>[*]the location and type of charted:<ul>[*]shipping routes;[*]lights, buoys and marks; and[*]boating hazards; and[/list][*]the areas usual boating conditions such as tides, currents, ice and weather patterns."[/list]
*p.s.* He said just don't had them a restaurant place mat!

-- Edited by Edelweiss on Saturday 21st of January 2012 03:34:32 PM

We are governed by The Canada Shipping Act and it states that*<strong style="background-color:#FFFFFF;">all vessels[/b] must have the largest available scale charts by the Canadian Hydrographic Service and that these charts must be kept up to date.* As you mentioned, the only exclusion to that rule is for a smaller size of vessel whose master has 'sufficient local knowledge'.

Regarding that 'sufficient local knowledge', one cruiser on Lake Ontario that we know of was stopped by our Coast Guard, and not having the appropriate charts, was actually asked several questions about local buoys and navigational hazards in the area.* He flunked the test and was fined I dont remember the amount.)
Needless to say we carry updated paper charts (we have electronic one too!)
*

 

[rwidman]

Delia Rosa wrote:Regarding that 'sufficient local knowledge', one cruiser on Lake Ontario that we know of was stopped by our Coast Guard, and not having the appropriate charts, was actually asked several questions about local buoys and navigational hazards in the area.* He flunked the test and was fined I dont remember the amount.)
Needless to say we carry updated paper charts (we have electronic one too!)

Seriously, are you saying that a guy pulling a wakeboarder with an 18' bowrider is required to carry charts or be able to recite the location of bouys in his/her area?

How about a guy fishing from a jon boat with a 25HP outboard?

I'm in the USA, not Canada,*and I get the annual USCG Auxilliary safety inspection and I've never been asked to produce charts, paper or electronic.* Flares and PFDs, yes. Polution and waste dumping placards, yes.* Fire extinguishers and documentation, yes.* Never charts.

*

 

[Delia Rosa]

Most of the time, the Coast Guard or appropriate authority isn't going to bother anyone who is handling his boat in an appropriate manner other than the occasional spot check... and wouldn't give that boater a hard time if he didn't have the appropriate charts. *However, that boater should be able to answer basic questions about their area. *(I've seen many a boater go around the buoys on the wrong side and ground themselves.. or hit rocks they didn't realize were there).

Also, you never know what kind of 'mood' the officer is going to be in, and legally if the master of the boat doesn't have the correct info or charts, never mind all the rest of the stuff he is supposed to have on board, in Canada he can be fined.

There seems to be differences in the tolerence level for certain things in the US and Canada for boaters. *For example, in Canada, there is zero tolerence for alcohol when cruising on pleasure boats *- not just the captain, also the crew and guests.

On the other hand, once we were boarded by the US Coast Guard and they cited us for not having the name of our vessel on our life ring. (no fine, just a warning!)

 

[Larry M]

rwidman wrote:
....I'm in the USA, not Canada,*and I get the annual USCG Auxilliary safety inspection and I've never been asked to produce charts, paper or electronic.* Flares and PFDs, yes. Polution and waste dumping placards, yes.* Fire extinguishers and documentation, yes.* Never charts.*

We had a Vessel Safety Check (VSC) by a CG Aux crew 2008.* I just pulled out my copy.* There are 15 main items that are for the VSC decal which are required just as Rwidman says.* There is another section that is titled Recommended and Discussed Items and under the title,*the form says "While encouraged, items below are not VSC requirements".* This section has 8 main items such as marine radio, mounted fire extinguishers, dewatering device & backup, etc.* Under discussed items there is a section for nautical charts/navigation aids.* It's interesting that the navigation rules are a VSC requirement but charts aren't.

 

[rwidman]

Delia Rosa wrote:

On the other hand, once we were boarded by the US Coast Guard and they cited us for not having the name of our vessel on our life ring. (no fine, just a warning!)

Strange, at least for a boat the size of mine and smaller, a life ring is not a requirement, just an approved "throwable floatation device".* Usually, this is a $10 cushion about 16" square with two hoops sewn on.* And no name is required on the throwable device.* Actually, a vessel isn't required to be named at all unles it's a Federally documented vessel.*

 

[Delia Rosa]

When we were boarded by the US Coast Guard near Gloucester MA, they brought along with them a little blue book *(They left it behind in error and we still have it on board). *This book is their bible of what to look for and the list was long and much more complete than what is posted on the website for the US Coast Guard Boating Safety. *

I can't remember the complete list for a vessel the size of ours, but in addition to the usual things like life jackets, flares, horn, fire extinguisher etc... it also included things like an axe, a bucket, 50 foot heaving line, life buoy with vessel name, reboarding device... and the list goes on!!!


-- Edited by Delia Rosa on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 02:03:12 PM

 

[psneeld]

Delia Rosa wrote:
When we were boarded by the US Coast Guard near Gloucester MA, they brought along with them a little blue book *(They left it behind in error and we still have it on board). *This book is their bible of what to look for and the list was long and much more complete than what is posted on the website for the US Coast Guard Boating Safety. *

I can't remember the complete list for a vessel the size of ours, but in addition to the usual things like life jackets, flares, horn, fire extinguisher etc... it also included things like an axe, a bucket, 50 foot heaving line, life buoy with vessel name, reboarding device... and the list goes on!!!



-- Edited by Delia Rosa on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 02:03:12 PM

*Sounds like guidelines for boarding an inspected vessel...not a UPV or rec boat.

 

[Delia Rosa]

Next time we go to the boat, I will have to check the title of that little blue book!

 

[weebobby]

*

Requirements for Canadian pleasure craft between 12 and 20 meters

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-equipment-size-greater12m-293.htm

 

[Delia Rosa]

Our boat is a Canadian Registered Vessel but we do all our boating in US waters... so we try to make sure we are compliant with the rules of both countries. *

We have to be careful about a few differneces in these rules... for example, flares are legal in Canada for four years from the date of manufacture, but only three in the US!

 

[Edelweiss]

weebobby wrote:
*

Requirements for Canadian pleasure craft between 12 and 20 meters

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-equipment-size-greater12m-293.htm

Pretty close to the US requirements for my boat (I'm the next size smaller.)* One difference I see is the number of flares.* Don't have my reference material here, but I believe US requires 3 signaling/flares and Canada 12.* I'm not sure on the heaving line requirement, but I'm a sport crabber and have that one covered many times over.

I boat a lot in BC, so thanks for posting that info.

LB

 

[Delia Rosa]

Edelweiss wrote:weebobby wrote:
*

Requirements for Canadian pleasure craft between 12 and 20 meters

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-equipment-size-greater12m-293.htm

Pretty close to the US requirements for my boat (I'm the next size smaller.)* One difference I see is the number of flares.* Don't have my reference material here, but I believe US requires 3 signaling/flares and Canada 12.* I'm not sure on the heaving line requirement, but I'm a sport crabber and have that one covered many times over.

I boat a lot in BC, so thanks for posting that info.

LB

*I think that the Canadian rules are stricter for number and types of fire extinguishers as well as the extra flare requirement.

 

[Delia Rosa]

Although this comment is off topic regarding paper charts, the biggest difference in the rules for boating in Canada and the US seems to be about alcohol.
In both countries, driving a boat while impaired is a serious offence. *Canada takes it a step further by saying that:
In most provinces, alcohol may be consumed on board the pleasure craft only if it meets all of the following conditions:
<ul type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;background-color:#FFFFFF;">The vessel has permanent sleeping facilities<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;background-color:#FFFFFF;">The vessel has permanent cooking facilities<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;background-color:#FFFFFF;">The vessel has a permanent toilet<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;background-color:#FFFFFF;">The vessel is anchored or secured alongside a dock[/list]
So in Canada, no drinking by anyone on board is allowed while cruising... and in Canada, boating violations can be tied to your motor vehicle driver's licence... i.e. *a serious infraction on your boat can lead to losing your driver's licence.

 

[psneeld]

Delia Rosa wrote:Although this comment is off topic regarding paper charts, the biggest difference in the rules for boating in Canada and the US seems to be about alcohol.
In both countries, driving a boat while impaired is a serious offence. *Canada takes it a step further by saying that:
In most provinces, alcohol may be consumed on board the pleasure craft only if it meets all of the following conditions:
<ul type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;background-color:#ffffff;">The vessel has permanent sleeping facilities<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;background-color:#ffffff;">The vessel has permanent cooking facilities<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;background-color:#ffffff;">The vessel has a permanent toilet<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;background-color:#ffffff;">The vessel is anchored or secured alongside a dock[/list]
So in Canada, no drinking by anyone on board is allowed while cruising... and in Canada, boating violations can be tied to your motor vehicle driver's licence... i.e. *a serious infraction on your boat can lead to losing your driver's licence.

Licenses tied together here in NJ also...but for passengers?* Then it should apply to passengers on Cruise Ships in Canadien waters.* More cruise ships have sunk lately than small boats I've been in charge of

 

[Delia Rosa]

The rule regarding passengers is for pleasure boats.... I don't know the rules for commercial vessels like cruise ships or even fishing charters in Canadian waters....

but I hear you about cruise vessels being sunk lately!

 

[koliver]

Linked to your DL? not so, at least in BC

It is a criminal offence to operate a vessel "while impaired by alcohol or a drug", or to "blow over .08", or to "refuse to blow". Conviction will result in a fine AND a suspension of your operating privileges. It is up to the sentencing judge whether the suspension goes beyond operating a vessel, into "driving". I have been lawyering for 30 yrs and, while impaired defence has been only a small part of my practice, I have never seen a judge prohibit an impaired driver from operating a vessel, nor a vessel offender from driving a car. I actually had to argue that driving privileges should not be affected for an impaired vessel operator, several years ago. They weren't.

As for boats without sleeping/cooking/toilet not having alcohol aboard? Show me one. Bet you can't find a "dry" boat at the local launching ramp on a summer weekend!

 

[Delia Rosa]

koliver wrote:
Linked to your DL? not so, at least in BC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can only speak to Ontario - I don't know how it works in other provinces - but here is a quote taken directly from the Ontario Ministry of Transportation. *

"*Alcohol and boating do not mix - Boaters caught drinking and boating in Ontario face consequences similar to those for drinking and driving:
<ul type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;line-height:16.8pt;background-color:#e8ebe8;">Immediate*3, 7 or 30 day drivers licence suspension if caught with a*blood alcohol concentration (BAC)*in the "warn" range of 0.05 to 0.08. Drivers caught in the "warn" range more than once will face a mandatory alcohol education program, and could be subject to treatment programs and ignition interlock.<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;line-height:16.8pt;background-color:#e8ebe8;">Immediate 90-day administrative drivers licence suspension and a $150 administrative monetary penalty for boaters exceeding a 0.08 BAC or for failing or refusing to provide a breath or blood sample.<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;line-height:16.8pt;background-color:#e8ebe8;">If convicted under the Criminal Code, the boater will also face:[/list]<ul type="circle"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;line-height:16.8pt;background-color:#e8ebe8;">Driver's licence suspension, for one year up to a lifetime ban<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;line-height:16.8pt;background-color:#e8ebe8;">Mandatory alcohol assessment, education or treatment, and follow-up<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;line-height:16.8pt;background-color:#e8ebe8;">Ignition interlock condition on their drivers licence for one year to up to a lifetime<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;line-height:16.8pt;background-color:#e8ebe8;">Vehicle impoundment if caught driving a motor vehicle while under suspension[/list]These sanctions apply to anyone who is caught drinking and operating motorized and non-motorized vessels, including power boats, canoes, kayaks, personal watercraft, sailboats, dinghies and other inflatable boats and rafts.
*
Transport Canada states:"*Alcohol and Boating -*<strong style="font-size:13px;">Driving Under the Influence[/b]
Boating while impaired is an offence under the Criminal Code of Canada.
Operators with more than 80 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood are liable to the following fines:
1st offence : at least $600 fine
2nd offence : at least 14 days of imprisonment
3rd offence : at least 90 days of imprisonment
The maximum sentence may vary depending on provincial statutes.
*------------
One other thought regarding your comment:
"As for boats without sleeping/cooking/toilet not having alcohol aboard? Show me one. Bet you can't find a "dry" boat at the local launching ramp on a summer weekend!:
The rules about boating and alcohol exist and whether they are always enforced was really not my point - but boaters should be aware of all of these laws whether they choose to obey them or not. *And in Ontario at least, *they are now being enforced more widely and consistently.*
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/impaired/boating.shtml
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/impaired/fact-sheet.shtml#adls
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-quick-quick_visitor-1610.htm#d


-- Edited by Delia Rosa on Monday 23rd of January 2012 09:13:46 AM