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Old 01-10-2012, 12:41 PM   #61
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
Old_Salt wrote:*Am I in the minority as far as not religiously updating paper charts?"
Considering the amount of work required to*keep up with*chart corrections on more than one or two charts, probably not.

*
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:03 PM   #62
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RE: Paper Charts

But after missing 26 years of corrections maybe it is time for the Op to think about new charts
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:03 PM   #63
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Paper Charts

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RickB wrote:psneeld wrote:*I understand the weight aloft*will reduce the rate of roll and "possibly make the ride better"... however, when you finished off with the stability statement I couldn't decide exactly how you were connecting the two..
KG is the distance between the CG and the keel, if you add weight high on the boat, you*raise G*and bring it closer to the metacenter, M, which is determined not by G but by the location of the center of bouyancy, *B.

Because the distance between a line drawn vertically from*B*to*M defines the righting arm Z, as G rises the distance between G and M (GM) and roll rate decrease and we say that stability has decreased. When G and M coincide the boat is neutrally stable.

the locations of B and M will* begin to move quickly beyond about 10 degrees of roll and at some point (the point of vanishing stability) M will move below G and the boat can capsize. We conduct inclining experiments to determine where stability vanishes. Because different boats have different hull shapes is why I said there is more to stability than the height of the center of gravity above the keel.

I never said raising G increased stability, I said it provided for a better ride due to a slower rate of roll. And that is why I said*decreasing stability is not necessarily a*negative thing.*

*I know all that. As I said I've taught it, was a USCG engineering officer for a small boat/WPB fleet for 3 years*and have been involved with stability measurements on*smaller commercial*vessels.

While I see what you clearly stated...I think that in*many internet discussions, the brevity of many posts keeps clear understandings cloudy until a post or two more connects the dots a little more clearly.


-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 10th of January 2012 02:05:44 PM
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:16 PM   #64
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RE: Paper Charts

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weebobby wrote:
But after missing 26 years of corrections maybe it is time for the Op to think about new charts
*If one uses electronic charts, they reflect the current situation, or at least the current situation at the time the electronic charts were burned to the chip or card or memory.

But "current" paper charts are sometimes older than even 26 years so require manual updating.

As Rick said, I doubt many recreational boaters, even those who still have or use paper charts, bother to do this.* Of if they spot an obvious change--- a new marker buoy or something--- they'll draw it on the chart when they see it. But in terms of keeping up with the notices, depending on where one boats, things may not change enough to warrant the effort.

If we boated the Mississippi, keeping up-to-date is pretty important.* I have very limited experience with that river, but the little I have had (a long time ago) taught me that things are always changing in terms of channels, bars, water levels, etc.* Here in the PNW, nothing much of any significance ever changes.* The water is deep and much of the structure is rock so things don't migrate around much with storms and whatnot.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:51 PM   #65
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RE: Paper Charts

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markpierce wrote:
A flying bridge adds a lot of expense when it duplicates another helmsman position.*................... and a flying bridge raises the boat's center of gravity*so reducing a boat's stability.*
*My Camano was offered originally with (Troll) or without (Gnome) a fly bridge.* Very, very few were made or sold without the fly bridge.* In nice weather, it adds significant square footage to the useable space on the boat.

As for raising the center of gravity, I am counting on the boat's designer to take that into account.

But, I respect your choice to buy a boat without one.* "You pays your money and you takes your choice."
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:56 PM   #66
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RE: Paper Charts

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Pineapple Girl wrote:
Wait, I thought this is a thread on charts?* I'm soooo confused....*

*

Well, it started out that way, but it seems you had a hand in steering it off course:

"When we first got our boat we tried running from the flying bridge a few times until we both decided we didn't like it.*"*

It doesn't take much around here.*

*
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:57 PM   #67
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
rwidman wrote:Pineapple Girl wrote:
Wait, I thought this is a thread on charts?* I'm soooo confused....*

*

Well, it started out that way, but it seems you had a hand in steering it off course:

"When we first got our boat we tried running from the flying bridge a few times until we both decided we didn't like it.*"*

It doesn't take much around here.*

*
*Jennifer didnt' say that, I did.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:27 PM   #68
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
Marin wrote:rwidman wrote:Pineapple Girl wrote:
Wait, I thought this is a thread on charts?* I'm soooo confused....*

*

Well, it started out that way, but it seems you had a hand in steering it off course:

"When we first got our boat we tried running from the flying bridge a few times until we both decided we didn't like it.*"*

It doesn't take much around here.*

*
*Jennifer didnt' say that, I did.

Yeah Marin said that!* Matt and I almost always steer from up top.* high CG or no!
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:08 PM   #69
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RE: Paper Charts

OK, sorry. This forum is a little different from others I haunt and I must have gotten confused as to who said what.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:28 PM   #70
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
markpierce wrote:Carey wrote:RickB wrote:markpierce wrote:
*a flying bridge raises the boat's center of gravity*so reducing a boat's stability.*
Not necessarily a negative thing.* Adding a flying bridge or standing up there will reduce the rate of roll, make the boat ride better, and make it less likely that someone will be "thrown off" the deck or the bridge.

There is a lot more to stability than the KG.

*Right you are Rick!

*If this is so, why don't sailboats have ballast in their masts rather than the keels?

*Hey, hey, Mr. Coot!* This is a nitty gritty TRAWLER Forum, not some hoity toity sailing club.* You're welcome to just leave that sailing stuff at the door.* :nana: :weirdface:

(good point, though!* :thumbsup**
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:19 PM   #71
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Paper Charts

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FlyWright wrote:
*Hey, hey, Mr. Coot!* This is a nitty gritty TRAWLER Forum, not some hoity toity sailing club.* You're welcome to just leave that sailing stuff at the door.* :nana: :weirdface:

(good point, though!* :thumbsup**
*Al, you're just jealous.* Love having my radar on a "real" mast (with sails!)*high above me rather than staring down my neck, as compared to*sitting in*your flying bridge.*


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Old 01-11-2012, 08:16 PM   #72
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
rwidman wrote:
OK, sorry. This forum is a little different from others I haunt and I must have gotten confused as to who said what.
I*think the quotes got wonky so it is hard to follow.* no worries, just goofin' around.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:20 PM   #73
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
markpierce wrote:FlyWright wrote:
*Hey, hey, Mr. Coot!* This is a nitty gritty TRAWLER Forum, not some hoity toity sailing club.* You're welcome to just leave that sailing stuff at the door.* :nana: :weirdface:

(good point, though!* :thumbsup**
*Al, you're just jealous.* Love having my radar on a "real" mast (with sails!)*high above me rather than staring down my neck, as compared to*sitting in*your flying bridge.*

*Yup, you're on to me, Cooty!* I'm considering adding a faux sail just to disguise my ugly radar mast.* Hey, your color would match my canvas!
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:10 AM   #74
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RE: Paper Charts

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FlyWright wrote:* Hey, your color would match my canvas!
*Great minds think alike.* Blue is so ... stale.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:41 AM   #75
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
Pineapple Girl wrote:
Wait, I thought this is a thread on charts?* I'm soooo confused....*
Speaking of charts, don't forget to bring along the MSDS for nautical charts. Safety first you know.
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:25 PM   #76
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
RickB wrote:Pineapple Girl wrote:
Wait, I thought this is a thread on charts?* I'm soooo confused....*
Speaking of charts, don't forget to bring along the MSDS for nautical charts. Safety first you know.

I think there is a California prop 65 warning on paper charts.* Lead content or something... *
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:02 PM   #77
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RE: Paper Charts

A long the lines of paper charts, what about the Navigation Rules of the Road?* During our last CGC inspection I was asked and showed the inspector an electronic copy, we don't have a paper copy.* He started to say something but let it go.* Do you carry a hard copy on your vessel?* Is an electronic copy adequate?
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:12 PM   #78
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
Larry M wrote:
A long the lines of paper charts, what about the Navigation Rules of the Road?* During our last CGC inspection I was asked and showed the inspector an electronic copy, we don't have a paper copy.* He started to say something but let it go.* Do you carry a hard copy on your vessel?* Is an electronic copy adequate?
*My boat is only 36', but I do carry the hardcopy.

I believe that it is required on vessels 12 meter (39.37') and above. As to whether an electronic copy is acceptable, I would guess that it is not, considering there is no guarantee that it would be accessible when needed.
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:18 PM   #79
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Paper Charts

Quote:
Carey wrote:Larry M wrote:
A long the lines of paper charts, what about the Navigation Rules of the Road?* During our last CGC inspection I was asked and showed the inspector an electronic copy, we don't have a paper copy.* He started to say something but let it go.* Do you carry a hard copy on your vessel?* Is an electronic copy adequate?
*My boat is only 36', but I do carry the hardcopy.

I believe that it is required on vessels 12 meter (39.37') and above. As to whether an electronic copy is acceptable, I would guess that it is not, considering there is no guarantee that it would be accessible when needed.

*Can't swear...but I believe it's only commercial vessels that are required to carry hard copy charts/pubs.

The exception is a copy of the rules of the road for 12 meter and above.


-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 20th of January 2012 06:19:20 PM
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:59 PM   #80
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RE: Paper Charts

About 6 months ago on our last CG water boarding, I was asked if I had a copy of Navigation rules. I did not. Asked "Did I have a copy of Chapmans?" Yes I did and that seemed to satisfy.
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