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Old 01-08-2012, 05:35 PM   #21
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
Marin wrote:Pineapple Girl wrote:
*I have "chart" in quotes as we notced after we started using it that it was marked "not for navigation".* This is one of those Maptech ones that folds up like a map you'd have had in your car back in the day.*
I would have thought with all the boating activity in SFO that there would be a large MapTech-type chartbook available for the bay, river, delta, etc.* The big chart books--- if you have the space to lay them out--- are great.* I've posted this photo before but it shows how our portable*"chart table" fits over the companionway to the forward cabin.* Very handy.

*The boat came with good charts of everything in the bay except the delta itself so we didn't really need the book.* Plus we are usually on the flybridge and will fold the chart back to just show where we are.* the book seems like it might be a bit unwieldy up there but maybe not.* I am leaning toward the NOAA POD charts of the delta--think there are 3 or 4 that we need--but I will also see what "chart books" I can find of that area and how recent they are...
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:07 PM   #22
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RE: Paper Charts

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Pineapple Girl wrote:Marin wrote:*Plus we are usually on the flybridge and will fold the chart back to just show where we are.* the book seems like it might be a bit unwieldy up there but maybe not.
*When we first got our boat we tried running from the flying bridge a few times until we both decided we didn't like it.* And you are right--- the big MapTech chartbooks can be a bit of a handful in the open like that.* We bought MapTech's portable chart table (same one we later modifed for use down below) and this helped to a degree but it was still an unwieldy situation.

You are probably better off doing what you do, folding a chart to be a manageable thing.* But for down below out of the wind and weather the chartbooks are great we think.* Everything in one package, so to speak.
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Old 01-09-2012, 05:14 AM   #23
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RE: Paper Charts

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Pineapple Girl wrote:

*When we first got our boat we tried running from the flying bridge a few times until we both decided we didn't like it.**

Funny, we always run the boat from the flybridge unless it's raining or too cold.* We like the view and the sun when running and the better visibility when passing boats or docking.

As for charts, we use the plotters primarily but we have paper charts and use them for the "big picture".* Measuring progress, selecting an anchoage, etc.* We also carry all the cruising guides for the area we are in at the time.* These help us identify possible trouble spots and help with choosing anchorages, marinas, and fuel stops.
*
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:20 AM   #24
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RE: Paper Charts

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rwidman wrote:
* We also carry all the cruising guides for the area we are in at the time.* These help us identify possible trouble spots and help with choosing anchorages, marinas, and fuel stops.
*

*Great point, Ron. *We also carry the cruising guides as well. The Active Captain website database is getting very good for referring to actual cruisers experiences with marinas and anchorages. *The resources we have today are phenominal. *Fuel prices are available on the Waterway Guide website and the Cruisers net website. *
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:50 AM   #25
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RE: Paper Charts

For reason covered earlier, we use the big Maptech SF Bay book along with our electronic plotter. *We got a see-through soft plastic zipper case to hold the book. It was made for this. It keeps the chart book on the right page and protects them from liquids and wear and tear. *It's always popular with company on board allowing them to understand the plan, see things along the way, etc. without me having to fuss with the plotter.
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:14 AM   #26
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RE: Paper Charts

If piloting from the lower helm, I have the full size of my computer screen, displaying the CHS chart, with the boat centred in the screen. For areas that are relatively new to us, I have a complete selection of paper charts hanging nearby, folded in half. If piloting from up top (preferred, and more common, as we cruise more and more in a fair weather area), I have a crappy Humminbird 5" display, showing CMap charts, with the boat centred. Because visibility is so good, I rarely take a paper chart up top, but go below to pilot through anything tricky, with all the bigger aids handy. I also have radar below. If the weather compels me to go back outside, I have the complete chart books, which go up top more handily than full size charts, and I have the old series of Gulf Island and Sunshine Coast strip charts, that are the handiest of all. Too bad those have been discontinued. I will look after mine and use them till they wear out.

The Humminbird moves to the dinghy when moored, but there, no paper charts, as the environment is too hostile. If ever I take a chart along, the 20 knot wind and frequent salt douche will finish a paper chart in one trip.

I have been, and will continue to look for a wide screen slave display for my computer that can go up top, but all I have seen to date cost too much. With the modern technology, the aids we now treat as the minimum required are phenomenally better than what I grew up with.

At a social gathering on the weekend I was reminded of my early experience on a salmon troller, in the summer of 67. We had Radar, SSB radio, Loran C, RDF, CB radio, Autopilot, Paper recording Depth. The boat was new then, so stood out as well equipped for the time, but no GPS, Computer, daylight visible radar screen, VHF, AIS, Fishfinder, FLIR, EPIRB, etc. Some of the places we went weren't charted since Capt Vancouver in 1778. Now there are very few "white areas" on CHS charts.
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:21 AM   #27
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RE: Paper Charts

Go here to find the area you want and print out the chart, cut it into whatever strip or size you want and voila, you have your personalized chart.

http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/s...kletChart.html
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:14 PM   #28
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Paper Charts

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rwidman wrote:

Funny, we always run the boat from the flybridge unless it's raining or too cold.

We also carry all the cruising guides for the area we are in at the time.
*

*Everybody has different preferences.* While the view is nice we hate the sight picutre from up there in terms of maneuvering the boat-- we both do a much better job of docking and close-in maneuvering from the lower helm.* We find it much easier to judge the positon of the boat from down below than up above.

All our "heavy duty" navigation systems are at the lower helm--- radar, GPS plotters, etc.

Also, neither of us likes being "disconnected" from the boat by operating up above.* Down below we can hear, feel, and smell what's going on in the engine room and the rest of the boat.

Deck access from down below is immediate if the person on deck needs a hand.

And finally, even if the above comments were not applicable, the day we averted a boat fire underway by being at the lower helm and smelling it from the instrument consol-- the boat's old hailer/intercom overheated so much it was starting to char the wood around it) convinced us to never run the boat from above again.* If we'd been up top, the first clue there was a problem would have most likely been the flames.

We use cruising guides as well.* The most useful in our opinion are the Dougass Guides.* Second most useful is the Waggoner Guide (now published by Fine Edge).* We also have the relevant US and Canadian sailing directions books on board and use them, too, if we are going someplace new or want to review information about someplace we haven't been in awhile.


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 9th of January 2012 01:24:36 PM
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:33 PM   #29
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RE: Paper Charts

I'm with Marin regarding flying bridges and made it a point not to acquire a boat with one.* This is only a personal preference.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:38 PM   #30
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RE: Paper Charts

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markpierce wrote:
I'm with Marin regarding flying bridges and made it a point not to acquire a boat with one.* This is only a personal preference.
*A far better configuration than a flying bridge, in our opinon, is a raised pilothouse.* You get the best of both worlds that way--- better visibility with connection to the boat and fast and easy access to the deck if needed.
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Old 01-09-2012, 01:38 PM   #31
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Paper Charts

Quote:
Marin wrote:
markpierce w:

I'm with Marin regarding flying bridges and made it a point not to acquire a boat with one.* This is only a personal preference.
*A far better configuration than a flying bridge, in our opinon, is a raised pilothouse.* You get the best of both worlds that way--- better visibility with connection to the boat and fast and easy access to the deck if needed.

We have the fly bridge and the raised pilot house which we like and use both.* The rainy season just ended and we didn't using the fly-bridge for obvious reasons.* When we dock and cruise at night, we do it from the pilot house for some of the reasons that Main stated.* But when we are navigating around the reefs, the fly bridge gives us much better color definition.* And when we are fishing it's pretty exciting to be on*the fly bridge to see a dorado or bill fish streaking across the water to hit one of your lures.

As far as paper charts go, we started using electronic charting in 2002 and we still bought paper charts.* As time went on, we found that were only using charts for big picture planning.* Now we only use electronic charts and the most up today cruising guides.* We have 2 back up systems that are all loaded with the same charts and GPS drivers and have never had a critical failure.* When arriving into a new port or anchorage we use the cruising guides, the electronic charts, the VHF radio and eye ball navigation.


-- Edited by Larry M on Monday 9th of January 2012 02:43:45 PM
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:01 PM   #32
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RE: Paper Charts

Till I can have a chartplotter as big as a chartbook...it's just not the same...zoomng in and out for the detail and looking ahead is more distracting than I prefer.* I'm happy with even a tiny chartplotter and a chartbook over just a larger 10-15 inch chartplotter and no paper.

As far as flying bridges I'm not that fond of them...but they beat the heck out of most pilothouse boats when backing out of marinas*when you are hard pressed to turn around or backing into slips.* Granted...either of those can usually be avoided so not a huge issue...but a flying bridge gives better close quarters visability.* Usually that kind of visibility isn't needed for the majority of cruising needs.
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:21 PM   #33
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
psneeld wrote:...but a flying bridge gives better close quarters visability.*
******* Absolutely true! (Although I don't have one.)
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:41 PM   #34
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:psneeld wrote:...but a flying bridge gives better close quarters visability.*
******* Absolutely true! (Although I don't have one.)

*Yes, it can give better close quarter visability. *I don't think I would go so far as to say that it is absolute. *When we had a Europa style trawler, I always docked from the lower station. *No visibility to the rear from the flybridge. *Quick access to the deck at the lower helm. *I think Larry M may dock from the lower station for the same reasons. *Where I miss my flybridge most is sight piloting through the reefs of the Bahamas. *Although my dermatologist likes me to be inside.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:24 PM   #35
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Paper Charts

Were we boating in an area where judging passages and depth by the color of the water-- or physically seeing down into the water-- is a major benefit, we would run from the flying bridge. In all the fishing I did in Hawaii in a friend's boat we always ran the boat from the flying bridge for this reason, plus it provided the best all-round view to look for seabirds which is how we found the fish.

But in this area (PNW) the water is almost always too deep for the bottom to have any influence on the color of the water at the surface and the main hazards to navigation are the rocks and reefs, just about all of which are charted if not physically marked with navaids or kelp. So other than the nice view running the boat*from up above has not shown us any benefit.* And the accuracy of our two GPS plotters (C-Map) at the lower station makes it very obvious even in a very narrow and critical*channel like the one going into Comox on Vancouver Island if we are in the right position or not.

And in our case, at least, we find it much easier to judge the boat's close-in position relative to docks and whatnot from down below than from up above. I know we could get used to close-in maneuvering from the flying bridge if we wanted to run from up there--- it's where we ran the GB we chartered. But the advantages to us*of being down below outweigh the advantages of being up above, so we always run from below today.


*


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 9th of January 2012 07:28:26 PM
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:09 PM   #36
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RE: Paper Charts

A flying bridge adds a lot of expense when it duplicates another helmsman position.* It can*increase risk: saw a video of an experienced boater tossed from such crossing a bar and ended up dying from a broken neck/back.* There's lots more movement the farther one is from the center of gravity, and a flying bridge raises the boat's center of gravity*so reducing a boat's stability.* *A proper pilothouse has 360-degree visibility and immediate deck access.* Overhead UV protection is better with a thick steel plate rather than a mere piece of cloth.* A flying bridge can interfere with sails.* Let's just say I'm happy sans flying bridge.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:20 PM   #37
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RE: Paper Charts

Nice little boat in Bellingham. **Sorry Mark, but I had to do it.*
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:20 PM   #38
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RE: Paper Charts

Quote:
markpierce wrote:
*a flying bridge raises the boat's center of gravity*so reducing a boat's stability.*
Not necessarily a negative thing.* Adding a flying bridge or standing up there will reduce the rate of roll, make the boat ride better, and make it less likely that someone will be "thrown off" the deck or the bridge.

There is a lot more to stability than the KG.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:27 PM   #39
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RE: Paper Charts

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Carey wrote:
Nice little boat in Bellingham. **Sorry Mark, but I had to do it.*
*That's the pre-Buehler-revised design and surely a good boat.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:42 PM   #40
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Paper Charts

Quote:
RickB wrote:markpierce wrote:
*a flying bridge raises the boat's center of gravity*so reducing a boat's stability.*
Not necessarily a negative thing.* Adding a flying bridge or standing up there will reduce the rate of roll, make the boat ride better, and make it less likely that someone will be "thrown off" the deck or the bridge.

There is a lot more to stability than the KG.

I'm sure I was a lot more comfortable*with a cabin*on the fourth deck rather than the eleventh while 50-something-foot waves were hitting broadside.** Deck five/six:


-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 9th of January 2012 08:43:37 PM
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