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Old 02-21-2012, 07:04 AM   #41
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Marin, yes we have VTS in SFO. I monitor the channel when under power. That along with my iPad with Ship Finder running I manage to stay clear of ships and ferries (34kts+).
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:27 AM   #42
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Marin
The ferries between Vancouver and North Vancouver are the "Sea Bus" catamarans. They have never been termed "fast". They exceed my speed (8knots) but not twice, as they go around 15 knots.

The "Fast Ferries" of some local notoriety were built here and never fully put into service, as they became a political albatross for the gov't of the day, by costing .5 Billion. They were sold off at scrap value to the Washington Marine Group a few years ago. Dennis W subsequently found buyers in Dubai, where they were shipped on Dockwise semi submersible ships, to be made into private yachts for Arab Princes.

They could do 34+, but created a stacked wash (one from each hull, that would frequently arrive together) that resulted in a restricted speed zone of several miles from shore, defeating the whole purpose of being "fast". Instead of shortening the time for a crossing from Vancouver to Nanaimo, they merely reduced the capacity of the fleet. New Gov't, different ferries, so now we have some big, 20knot boats, (Marin's 2nd photo).
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:46 AM   #43
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

They tried "fast ferries" here, too. I'm not sure they were catamarans, but they ran between Seattle and Bremerton. Major complaints from property owners about the wakes eroding the shorelines in Rich Passage on the way into Bremerton. That plus poor ridership caused them to be taken out of service. They had been built locally (Washington State law requires that all ferries for the state system be built in Washington). I don't know what happened to them.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:08 PM   #44
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Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Our thirty-eight-knot*catamaran ferries make wakes much smaller than the USCG boats.


-- Edited by markpierce on Tuesday 21st of February 2012 01:21:40 PM
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:18 PM   #45
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Mark, If I had a big ole shinny set of Kahlenberg Horns, I'd toot 'em too. *Get out on the open water and toot your heart out. You go, boy!
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:24 PM   #46
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Quote:
Marin wrote:
...*They had been built locally (Washington State law requires that all ferries for the state system be built in Washington). I don't know what happened to them.
*Most of the Vallejo ferries, such as the Solano, were built in Anacortes, Washington.* These 41-meter-long ferries*make a max speed of 38 knots with 6220 horsepower.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:18 PM   #47
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Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Mark--- I just realized nobody has addressed your original question: are you not worthy of a couple of toots? From the perspective of the commercial guys, no, you're not.

Unless you are seriously in their way in which case they will give you repeated blasts on their horns and and give you the finger as emphasis of the regard they have for your little toy boat.





-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 21st of February 2012 02:20:02 PM
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:35 PM   #48
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Quote:
Moonstruck wrote:
Mark, If I had a big ole shinny set of Kahlenberg Horns, I'd toot 'em too. *Get out on the open water and toot your heart out. You go, boy!
Don

Would that not constitute "tooting his own horn"?**
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:55 PM   #49
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Quote:
Marin wrote:
Mark--- I just realized nobody has addressed your original question: are you not worthy of a couple of toots? From the perspective of the commercial guys, no, you're not.
*That's about what I'd expected.* At least it's not just me.
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:23 PM   #50
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Mark I just read this whole thing... oh boy.*

Any hoo...* in my experience on the SF Bay, the only time you'll hear a horn is if one of the freighters gives five blasts at some oblivious boater.

The only time we have had a recreational vessel use a horn to signal their intentions, it was a trawler up on the delta tooting his horn at us to let us know he was passing us.* We slowed down so he could slow down as he passed.*

We tried to return the favor with a sailboat (motoring) in the Alameda estuary on Friday evening.* He was completely oblivious to us.* I tooted my horn and got not so much as a glance.* He was moving around the boat, including going down below a few brief times, and never once appeared to look around and take any notice of his surroundings.**I contemplating hailing him but decided not to be so nice to someone so oblivious.* His boat barely reacted to our wake so I guess it was a non-issue anyway.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:00 PM   #51
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Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Quote:
markpierce wrote:
*That's about what I'd expected.* At least it's not just me.
*No, it's not.*

Many years ago I shot for a Matson TV commercial on board their then-brand-new roll-on/roll-off ship Matsonia.* The commercial followed a new farm tractor from the manufacturer in the midwest to a ranch on the Big Island in Hawaii via rail and Matson.* My job was to get some "at sea" footage on the ship on the voyage from Oakland to Hilo.

I was on the ship's*bridge when we left Oakland and stayed there filming*until we cleared the Golden Gate.* The Matsonia had a nice comfortable seat right at the point of the bow behind a Plex windscreen.* There was an intercom there and when the ship was entering or leaving port a crewman sat in the seat and provided warnings to the bridge*about smaller boats that might present a problem because these boats were sometime invisible behind the bulk of tthe ship stretching forward of the bridge.

It was a nice day and there were a fair number of sail and power boats on the bay, although I suspect not anywhere near as many as there are these days.* And the running commentary from the fellow in the bow seat and the captain and others on the bridge left a permanent impression of how we in our toy boats are viewed by the pros.

The entire time across the bay it was:

"There's another one of those f*cking cruisers coming at us from the left.

*[interestingly, all directions on the ship were given in terms of right and left, not starboard and port. There were even two huge signs above the forward bridge windows, one in red with a big arrow that said "Left" and the other in green with a big arrow that said "Right."]

"Goddam*ed sailboaters, they don't know jack-sh*t about sh*t."

"What's the matter with that dumba*s in the white cruiser?* Doesn't he f*cking see us?"

"This stupid f*ck*in front of us doesn't have a f*cking clue that we're here. Give him a blast so we can watch him sh*t his pants when he looks around."

And on and on and on.* A lot of the commentary was actually very funny albeit not at all complimentary to the "stupid f*ck" in the boat in question.

I've heard similar commentary when riding the flight decks of commercial airliners all over the world.* Only there they are talking about general aviation aircraft that are operating on the same airfield.* I've ridden BA 747-400s from Europe to the West Coast, Air Malta 737s and A320s between London and Malta, and a lot of other stuff in between.* The accents change but the sentiments don't.* With few exceptions the pros regard the amateurs as pond scum.


-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 21st of February 2012 06:03:54 PM
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:33 PM   #52
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Not worthy of a couple of honks?

I was a crew boat Capt. in the Gulf of Mex for 2 years. The size of these boats range from 90' to 135'. We hauled work crews and supplies to the platforms and rigs.

These boats were built for hauling and not for comfort. If seaworthyness were largely based on sea kindlyness, these boats would fail miserably. That being said, I will add that you can't hear a damned thing inside of the wheelhouse except for engine noise - sometimes up to 6 engines. This should help sone in answering your question.

We always used "whitle signals' via radio. At the time I was Capt., whistle signals by radio were not legal, they had to be done by horn. *If we relied on horns alone, there would be wrecks on a daily basis. Thank God, the industry realized this.

*


-- Edited by Tony B on Tuesday 21st of February 2012 06:37:12 PM
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:31 PM   #53
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Quote:
markpierce wrote:**Most of the Vallejo ferries, such as the Solano, were built in Anacortes, Washington.* These 41-meter-long ferries*make a max speed of 38 knots with 6220 horsepower.
*Mark

We do have a ship yard in Anacortes, Dakota Creek, who builds large fishing boats, tugs and work boats, and they may have built some*ferries for the bay area too.* But I ran into this article below which talks about Nichols Brothers Boat Building on South Whidbey Island about 25 miles south of Anacortes who built some boats for WETA in the Bay area. This also answers the question of what happened to our foot ferries.* You got those too??

Larry B

To update the Bay Area's foot-ferry fleet, the agency recently took delivery of a new, $8.8 million, 149-passenger twin-hulled catamaran constructed by Nichols Brothers Boat Builders of Freeland, Wash., on Whidbey Island, right here in our very own Puget Sound. The company has built 41 similar vessels since 1982, but the latest iteration is state of the art, as the South Whidbey Island Record reports. Nichols Brothers is already building a second model for WETA, one of three more boats the agency has ordered to date and expects to have running this year.

Meanwhile, the other foot-ferry agency in the Bay Area, which also operates the Golden Gate Bridge, has bought for $4 million two late-90s vintage high speed passenger-only vessels from Washington State Ferries. The boats will run between San Francisco, and Larkspur and Sausalito. They were used on the Bremerton-Seattle passenger-only route, which was discontinued because of lawsuits from waterfront homeowners in narrow Rich Passage who contended the voluminous wakes from the boats caused shoreline erosion. That is not expected to be an issue in the more open waters of the Bay Area.

*
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:00 PM   #54
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Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Quote:
Pineapple Girl wrote:
... The only time we have had a recreational vessel use a horn to signal their intentions, it was a trawler up on the delta tooting his horn at us to let us know he was passing us.* We slowed down so he could slow down as he passed. ...*
*Yesterday, heading east near the southern shore of Carquinez Strait,*immediately east of the C&H sugar plant, a sedan cruiser was a couple of hundred yards ahead,*heading directly in front of*me but at a very slight angle toward his port.* It looked like a starboard-to-starboard pass, so I tooted twice.* Although the cruiser didn't sound, it turned to*its port in response.* I made a ten-degree "dance" to my port, and we waved happily in passing.

Copacetic!


-- Edited by markpierce on Tuesday 21st of February 2012 08:08:58 PM
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:21 PM   #55
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Quote:
Marin wrote:
"There's another one of those f*cking cruisers coming at us from the left.

*[interestingly, all directions on the ship were given in terms of right and left, not starboard and port. There were even two huge signs above the forward bridge windows, one in red with a big arrow that said "Left" and the other in green with a big arrow that said "Right."]

"Goddam*ed sailboaters, they don't know jack-sh*t about sh*t."

"What's the matter with that dumba*s in the white cruiser?* Doesn't he f*cking see us?"

"This stupid f*ck*in front of us doesn't have a f*cking clue that we're here. Give him a blast so we can watch him sh*t his pants when he looks around."
*Can understand the sentiment.* Anyone of those ##### can cost their company millions and the officers' licenses.* Do my best to avoid that.
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:00 AM   #56
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

I remember years ago, a night encounter with a large freighter. I tried to raise him on the VHF as it looked as though our courses would converge. No response so I altered course, and damn if the big boy didn't alter too, We now seemed locked into collision, I Showed spot light on the sail.tried the radio, no luck. This Monster would settle for nothing less than my boat made matchsticks in it's wheel. I thought of the movie Duel. No matter which way I turned the ship would match me. I was sure there was someone having a good laugh at my expense up on the bridge. At last I turned a 180 and as the ship was crossing my stern at about 100 feet away, I could see the bridge clearly and there wasn't a soul present.
I then went about the task of cleaning out my shorts!
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:18 AM   #57
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Quote:
Edelweiss wrote:This also answers the question of what happened to our foot ferries.* You got those too??
Larry B

To update the Bay Area's foot-ferry fleet, the agency recently took delivery of a new, $8.8 million, 149-passenger twin-hulled catamaran constructed by Nichols Brothers Boat Builders of Freeland, Wash., on Whidbey Island, right here in our very own Puget Sound. The company has built 41 similar vessels since 1982, but the latest iteration is state of the art, as the South Whidbey Island Record reports. Nichols Brothers is already building a second model for WETA, one of three more boats the agency has ordered to date and expects to have running this year.

Meanwhile, the other foot-ferry agency in the Bay Area, which also operates the Golden Gate Bridge, has bought for $4 million two late-90s vintage high speed passenger-only vessels from Washington State Ferries. The boats will run between San Francisco, and Larkspur and Sausalito. They were used on the Bremerton-Seattle passenger-only route, which was discontinued because of lawsuits from waterfront homeowners in narrow Rich Passage who contended the voluminous wakes from the boats caused shoreline erosion. That is not expected to be an issue in the more open waters of the Bay Area.

*

There are car ferries up in the delta but all the commuter ferries on the SF bay are foot ferries.** I did not know they were called that.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:20 AM   #58
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Quote:
markpierce wrote:Pineapple Girl wrote:
... The only time we have had a recreational vessel use a horn to signal their intentions, it was a trawler up on the delta tooting his horn at us to let us know he was passing us.* We slowed down so he could slow down as he passed. ...*
*Yesterday, heading east near the southern shore of Carquinez Strait,*immediately east of the C&H sugar plant, a sedan cruiser was a couple of hundred yards ahead,*heading directly in front of*me but at a very slight angle toward his port.* It looked like a starboard-to-starboard pass, so I tooted twice.* Although the cruiser didn't sound, it turned to*its port in response.* I made a ten-degree "dance" to my port, and we waved happily in passing.

Copacetic!



-- Edited by markpierce on Tuesday 21st of February 2012 08:08:58 PM

*I should have said Overtaking instead of passing.* I'm glad you had a good experience.*
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:42 PM   #59
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

Quote:
Pineapple Girl wrote:
There are car ferries up in the delta but all the commuter ferries on the SF bay are foot ferries.** I did not know they were called that.
*Those Delta car ferries are free for the travelers.

http://www.californiadelta.org/ferries.htm
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:58 PM   #60
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RE: Not worthy of a couple of honks?

So I was merrily paddling my way down the Columbia river in my kayak early one morning when some LEO boat heading upstream flashed his lights and hit a short burst of his siren as he passed me. Thinking he was being cordial, I waved "hello" back to him. Then I heard the horn of the freighter coming up behind me at about 15 Knts ... Got my morning exercise paddling out of the way in a big hurry!

*

The picture shows a heavy at anchor, but, believe me, I kept a sharp eye out for them over my shoulder (you can't hear 'em sneaking up on you).

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