Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-20-2019, 04:54 AM   #1
Member
 
City: Annapolis
Country: Usa
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 5
Nordhavn 40 electric issue

I have just completed a survey of a Nordhavn 40 that has an electric issue. The boatís electric system is powered by two 30 amp circuits, one circuit for the three AC units and the other for the house. The first problem is that the 30 amp circuits each have a 50 amp breaker that needs to be immediately changed to a 30 amp breaker. The boat has three AC units and 30 amps canít run them all. Is this how the boat is configured by Nordhavn? Should I add a third 30 amp circuit? Iím not sure how to solve this problem. The Chesapeake is hot in the summer so all three AC units are needed.
__________________
Advertisement

isphh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 05:42 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
City: Hughesville, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Branwen
Vessel Model: Hatteras 48 LRC
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 407
Is the ultimate solution to be both a shore power and generator powered system? Upgrade one or both 30-amp circuits to 50-amp? Add a 50-amp circuit for the AC units?
__________________

GregBrannon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 06:18 AM   #3
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by isphh View Post
I have just completed a survey of a Nordhavn 40 that has an electric issue. The boat’s electric system is powered by two 30 amp circuits, one circuit for the three AC units and the other for the house. The first problem is that the 30 amp circuits each have a 50 amp breaker that needs to be immediately changed to a 30 amp breaker. The boat has three AC units and 30 amps can’t run them all. Is this how the boat is configured by Nordhavn? Should I add a third 30 amp circuit? I’m not sure how to solve this problem. The Chesapeake is hot in the summer so all three AC units are needed.
I moved from a N46 (2X50amp leg) boat to a AT34 (2X30amp leg) boat. I have two A/C and can run them off of one 30amp leg and the house on the other 30amp leg. I will admit, the 30amp house leg can be a challenge. You learn pre-planning and load shedding. SIGH

My best advice is to contact Nordhavn for guidance, for a start.
Realize the Nordhavn, according to Nordhavn, is a 'semi-custom' boat. Nordhavn may or may not maintain records how your particular boat was configured when it left the factory. Then you have no idea how or what the various owners, before you, modified the boat and/or its electrical system. I would still start with Nordhavn.

Consider having 'soft starts' installed on the A/Cs. I have no experience with the 'soft starts' but, I have seen them recommended in similar cases on other boats.

Can you run all 3 A/Cs on the generator?

I agree with you on the 50amp breakers on a 30amp boat. Doesn't seem like a good idea, in my feeble mind.

I hope the above helps.
__________________
Did Noah have a get home-engine?
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 06:24 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
City: Baltimore, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Starshine
Vessel Model: 1989 Bayliner 3288
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 225
Since you need more than 30 amps on the one circuit Iíd change service to 120/240 50 amp service. That will give you 50 amps of 120 volt to each bus.

John
johnrupp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 08:16 AM   #5
Newbie
 
City: Here and there
Country: US
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 1
We have been liveaboards for over seven years on our N40 and experienced temps over 100 on the bay. We found that two a/c running- salon and cabins have been sufficient. The PH is warmer but at the dock we donít spend as much time there. We also have Phifertex shades for the PH and interior shades in the salon, both of which help a great deal.

Ours is likely somewhat newer and is wired the same as you describe. Therefore, Iíd suggest your surveyor may be mistaken regarding the need to downgrade circuit breakers. Assuming yours is similar to ours, there should be 32A circuit breakers between the shore power inlets and the ďShipís Service SelectorĒ switch. Ours is in the medicine locker. From the switch, 4ga. cable is used to the distribution panel (and its main panel CB) and also from that switch to the a/c panel (and itís main CB.) As alluded to above, this is to accommodate the full output of the generator. Yours (Iím assuming you have one) is likely 8k or 66 amps. You still have to manage loads but, you can simultaneously run ďnearlyĒ everything on generator.

The owners manual should have electrical diagrams which should be consulted rather than relying on the above and the possibility that specs have indeed changed and the distinct possibility I have no idea what Iím talking about.

I know of at least one 40 that went the 50 amp cord route allowing them to run all three a/cís at once. While we are considering that, there are some caveats: The cord is a big heavier python to wrestle, more expensive and more expensive to replace burned plugs. If you canít find a 50 amp pedestal, youíll have to reverse Y 30s so youíll only have 30 amps anyway. The cable between the inlet and the main selector switch is 10ga. And will need to be replaced, likely to 6ga as will the aforementioned intermediate circuit breakers. No showstoppers, just considerations, and all in all probably preferable than adding a third 30A circuit.

Good luck with your purchase.
Porgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 09:02 AM   #6
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,090
SMILE, My AT34 30amp --- I have ofter thought about shifting to 50amp just so I can own the world, electrically. Over time, I have learn to plan when cooking on my electric stove and temporary load shedding. I can safely use 2 burners and the microwave. If the water heater comes on or I attempt to include the over, your interior 120vt world goes dark. Of course, if both standard resistant electric heaters are on, don't try to add anything else or again, the boat will go dark.
In my case, the largest loads are the stove, the oven, hot water heater and electric heaters.
Life is a learning experience and so are boats.
__________________
Did Noah have a get home-engine?
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 09:07 AM   #7
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,833
Changing the two 120V 30A circuits to two 120V 50A circuits supplied by one 240/120V shore power connection will be difficult. All of the wiring from the new 240/120V shore power inlet may have to be upgraded to #8 to deal with the higher potential current (although it may have been wired for 50A originally from the factory). Also not all marinas have 240/120V power available but you can usually find two 120V 30A circuits on all with an adapter for the ones who do have 240/120V power.


So why not move one of the air conditioners over to the other, probably lightly loaded 30A circuit. This may pose some problems with the raw water pump if it is common to all three A/Cs but move the A/C that you use the least so that the other two are always on and supplying the raw water pump from the original 30A circuit.


Another problem as noted above is that a 30A circuit is marginal for running two 16K btu A/C units.


David
djmarchand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 10:03 AM   #8
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post

Another problem as noted above is that a 30A circuit is marginal for running two 16K btu A/C units
David
I guess that 'spains why I have a 16K and a 12K A/C units.
__________________
Did Noah have a get home-engine?
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 10:12 AM   #9
Guru
 
Maerin's Avatar
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: M/V Maerin
Vessel Model: Solo 4303
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 825
You indicate that your system is equipped with 50A breakers. If the cabling is #6, you may not have as much problem converting to a 240V/50A cable as some have suggested. There are so many variables involved that it's clearly beyond the forum to make that determination. You'll need a qualified ABYC marine electrician to make the call. Still, I'd definitely move to the 50A cable, there are so few places where 50A is NOT available that it is almost never an issue. As you noted, you already have experienced issues with dual 30A service. It's inadequate for your application. A smart wye would be a good investment to insure you're adaptable for those rare locations that are strictly 30A.

If you do convert, you'll need to be aware of the pitfalls of converting those dual 30 services to 50A, specifically neutrals and in particular neutrals and inverter circuits. An ABYC electrician will be aware of those issues, and dealing with them early on will help you avoid problems connecting to shore power that has been recently upgraded and is GFCI/ELCI equipped.

So your upgrade would provide you with a connection that requires only a single cable, won't nuisance trip, and will have the capacity to power all loads without fussing with what can be run when, etc. You've got a world-class vessel, get the power un-fussed! Plug in, turn on, and relax.

Good luck with the solution!
__________________
Steve Sipe
Selene 4303 Maerin
http://maerin.net
Maerin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 12:46 PM   #10
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,354
Someone might have added a third ac. Probably a mistake to have all ac's on one 30a service. Agree with Dave: See if you can move one ac breaker to the other panel.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 04:42 PM   #11
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,939
Are you a member of the Nordhavn Owners Group on groups.io? If not, I highly recommend joining. Ask there and you will get all the answers you could ever want about your 40.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 04:59 PM   #12
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,090
Are all 3 A/Cs 16k??
__________________
Did Noah have a get home-engine?
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 05:09 PM   #13
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,758
First I would have a certified marine electrician come do a survey of the electrical system. If you stay with the dual 30 amp inlets then move one of the A/Cs to the other 30 amp service. Or go to 50 amp service and problem solved. But when the electrician is there have him check for proper neutral connections so you wonít trip the ELCI on newly wired docks.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2019, 01:14 AM   #14
Guru
 
IRENE's Avatar
 
City: Port Angeles, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irene
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porgy View Post

Ours is likely somewhat newer and is wired the same as you describe. Therefore, Iíd suggest your surveyor may be mistaken regarding the need to downgrade circuit breakers. Assuming yours is similar to ours, there should be 32A circuit breakers between the shore power inlets and the ďShipís Service SelectorĒ switch. Ours is in the medicine locker. From the switch, 4ga. cable is used to the distribution panel (and its main panel CB) and also from that switch to the a/c panel (and itís main CB.) As alluded to above, this is to accommodate the full output of the generator. Yours (Iím assuming you have one) is likely 8k or 66 amps. You still have to manage loads but, you can simultaneously run ďnearlyĒ everything on generator.

The owners manual should have electrical diagrams which should be consulted rather than relying on the above and the possibility that specs have indeed changed...
We are also wired as Porgy indicates, confirmed by our wiring diagram. The good news is, there may be no problem with what sounds like a prospective boat.

Welcome to TF and Best Wishes
__________________

__________________
Jeff
MV IRENE
IRENE is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
electric, nordhavn

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×