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Old 12-04-2016, 01:20 PM   #21
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Thanks folks! To be clear, copied from the product data:

Magnum Energy MS Series Power Inverter / Charger
  • 4000-Watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter with 105-Amp Battery Charger
  • Input: 18 - 34 Volt DC, Output: 120 Volt AC / 4000 Watts Continuous
  • Series Stacking Interface for 120 / 240 Volt AC Using (2) MS4024 Units

So, does that mean I would be using 24V input?

Controllers:
BlueSky Solar Boost 1524iX’s advanced fully automatic 3-stage charge control system will properly charge flooded lead-acid, AGM and Gell batteries, resulting in improved battery performance with less battery maintenance. The dual 15/20 amp rating will deliver up to 15 amps in 24 volt systems (max panel wattage 400W), or up to 20 amps in 12 volt systems (max panel wattage 270W). To further enhance versatility, a user configurable auxiliary output and Blue Sky Energy’s advanced IPN™ network interface are also included.
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Old 12-04-2016, 01:29 PM   #22
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Thumbs up for the midnite 150 as well.
Single unit works for our 9 X 250watt array
So nice being able to run household refrigeration, freezers, HWS, washing machines and when it comes time to use power tools, simply plug them in and use them as well.
Victron 5000va provides invert/charge.
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Old 12-04-2016, 01:34 PM   #23
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Thumbs up for the midnite 150 as well.
Single unit works for our 9 X 250watt array
So nice being able to run household refrigeration, freezers, HWS, washing machines and when it comes time to use power tools, simply plug them in and use them as well.
Victron 5000va provides invert/charge.
Do you have a diesel generator onboard, too? Oh jeez, you have a big boat, so I suppose you do...

Would 5 x 325W panels be enough for a 24/5000VA inverter?
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Old 12-04-2016, 02:29 PM   #24
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I do have a diesel genset onboard, but have only used it for about 3 hours in 3 months of full time live aboard.

Not sure about your 5 panel question, depends on usage I guess.
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Old 12-04-2016, 02:34 PM   #25
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Thanks! Do you have the VA5000 unit with two AC outputs? It is more expensive here by about US$1250.

"The main output has no-break functionality. In the event of a grid failure, or shore or generator power being disconnected, the Quattro takes over the supply to the connected loads. This happens so fast (less than 20 milliseconds) that computers and other electronic equipment will continue to operate without disruption. The second output is live only when AC is available on one of the inputs of the Quattro. Loads that should not discharge the battery, such as air-conditioning or a water heater can be connected to this output."

I guess if you only want to do this or that while on shore power, it's OK. But totally off-grid living, it wouldn't be needed, eh?
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Old 12-04-2016, 03:43 PM   #26
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I have a multiplus 24v 5000va 120a charge
But this is insequents thread not mine, if you do a search you will find details of my setup and I'll answer any questions i can there :-)
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Old 12-04-2016, 04:39 PM   #27
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One and only one controller per battery bank.. they don't generally communicate together to coordinate charging of a bank (there may be some exceptions at the ultra high end but I have never heard of it)
You can have multiple Outback controllers per bank. I have 2 x FlexMax 80, but you could have many more if you wanted. You need a hub to join them to an Outback Mate 3 which synchronises the float stage.

There are multiple elements to keep broadly in balance with a solar setup and battery bank/inverter system. For solar, I think my 2070W of panels could keep a slightly larger bank than I have (1284Ah) in a good state of charge.

As to inverter size, it really depends on your load profile. If you want/need to run a bunch of high-amp stuff simultaneously for short duration then you need a high output inverter. For me these are microwave, toaster oven, washer, dryer. If you loads are lower amperage but over long periods (refrigeration, laptops, TV/sat dish) then a smaller inverter will be fine. Best for it to be pure sine wave - an old Heart unit probably doesn't cut the mustard.

Ideally you should create an inventory of what your significant power consumers are. Then measure amperages and Ah consumption preferably over a typical 24 hour period. Its fairly easy to do that for AC loads with a plug-in device like a 'kill-a-watt'. But you can also get DC meters and temporarily wire them in as well. Once you have your inventory and 24 hour consumptions in a spreadsheet you are well on your way to sizing everything.

For hot water, best to have engine heating loops and shore power only, no inverter powered hot water. If you have a generator, then it can energise your circuits the same as shore power would.

Simi, feel free to provide info on your setup here if you wish.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:00 PM   #28
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Simi, feel free to provide info on your setup here if you wish.
Ok

Mine seems pretty simple.
9 x 250w Jinko panels
8 x 220ah 12v agm's
Midnight 150 mpt
Victron multi 24v 5000va 120a charge.
Victron 702 battery monitor.

From that we run the following household product 24/7:
240v 180L rheem hws
240v Samsung 500L twin door fridge/freezer with indoor ice maker/waterchiller
240v Samsung 120L bar fridge
240v Kmart special 100 litre 4 draw freezer


We also run intermittantly
240v kettle, toaster, microwave, sandwich press, pressure cooker, rice cooker, blender, food processor, bread maker , washing machine, dryer, 40 inch led TV, PC and power tools.
No genset required for any of this.

On average the batts are on 75% to 80% @ 5am and depending on extras usage at 100‰ by lunchtime.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:25 PM   #29
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I changed three things. I swapped over to 6 x 345W Sunpower panels, and reconfigured the panel placement to significantly reduce shading issues. I also added an Outback Mate 3 to ensure each FlexMax achieved the most it could from the 3 panels they were connected to, without ‘fighting’ with the other charge controller. The shading aspect was quite a task as I needed to relocate a satellite dish, airhorns and two GPS antennae. I removed a motor driven searchlight as well that is yet to be re-installed. Increased performance is partly due to higher installed total wattage as well as shading avoidance. And perhaps panel brand performance.


My conclusion after the ‘3 month test’ is that the new Sunpower panels are performing brilliantly.
Hello Brian,

We love solar too we now have 10X 330Watt BenQ panel and soon going to had 8 more all most 6Kw of solar that going to be wonderful (We live full time onboard and never shore-power so solar make sens)

could you tell me price of you 345Watt Sunpower panel?

Hugues
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:03 PM   #30
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Thanks all! Very helpful info. Yeah my current Heart 2k inverter is old-tech from 2002. I have the two gensets now, 6kw (aft laz, in better cond.) and 7.5kw (in ER, worse cond.). I want to add a Washer and Dryer back on to the boat, but don't know where I'd put them (or it). The heating and cooling system is 38 years old - not sure if I might need to update those. Heating is going to be a real big deal for me over the next 4 months. One of the four AC units doesn't work - appears to be a pump issue - but we don't need A/C except for maybe a couple weeks out of the year, unless I cruise a few hours South, which might happen sometime in the 2020's.

According to all your inputs, looks like this solar project is going to cost me around US$15,000. I have to spend another $15K in repairs/deferred maintenance in the next month - those combined $30K eat up about half my reserves.

I like the idea of calculating the loads and making sure I have it all covered. What I might do is move aboard when the other repairs are finished (haven't spent a night on board yet), start to gather my load info, plan where I might move things, change things, install new things to suit my liveaboard lifestyle, see where it all ends up, in terms of load.

And, see what breaks and needs to be replaced between now and then.

The BenQ solar panels are now going to be AU Optronics (AUO) but I cannot find a residential source for them here in the US. Arrrgh!
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:52 PM   #31
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Hello Brian,

We love solar too we now have 10X 330Watt BenQ panel and soon going to had 8 more all most 6Kw of solar that going to be wonderful (We live full time onboard and never shore-power so solar make sens)

could you tell me price of you 345Watt Sunpower panel?

Hugues
They are expensive here in Australia (like lots of things.....) and were US$560 each at current exchange rates.

I'm a fan of having as many panels as possible. But even with only 6 x 345W I don't connect shore power at the dock unless there are cloudy days.
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:59 PM   #32
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They are expensive here in Australia (like lots of things.....) and were US$560 each at current exchange rates.

I'm a fan of having as many panels as possible. But even with only 6 x 345W I don't connect shore power at the dock unless there are cloudy days.
Thanks Brian, yes I can Imagine 6X 345W that plenty of power
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Old 12-04-2016, 08:29 PM   #33
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I HOPE it doesn't make TOO much difference that your latitude is around 27 degrees, and mine is 37 (like the border of NSW and Victoria).... But then, in my wintertimes here, it's much more unusual to be cruising for any lengths of time, as our seas are generally much less friendly in winter. Like, how's the cruising out of Bairnsdale in June? Nice easy run to Hobart, then, I am sure... Or not.

The Sunpower cells seem like they would do pretty well in lower light, anyway. You could maybe comment on winter vs summer performance... Or, would you be designing your system differently if you were a liveaboard in Bairnsdale or Melbourne.... They are roughly equivalent to where I will be living aboard, except I am directly on your East Coast... more like Bairnsdale I guess.
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Old 12-04-2016, 09:00 PM   #34
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Brian,
Why not run the water heater? A small 750 watt heater run for half an hour for shower and dishes would only take 35 AMPs or so. It would be the difference between cold water camping and a comfortable life ��
I agree, unlimited hot water would be too much.
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Old 12-04-2016, 09:12 PM   #35
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I believe the 30 gallon WH in my boat has a heating element around 3500-3800 watts... So does that mean for one hour I would use 3800/12 = 316 amps? and for 10 minutes, divide by 6, so about 53 amps used? But then, a tank keeps the water hot all the time, so it would be just a flat continuous 316 amps/hour...? Oh, tank heating element runs intermittently, so I would have to look at the specs of the unit itself, eh?
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:43 PM   #36
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You could spend hours identifying the HWS model you have, calculating heating amps,heat time required, temp retention period, reheat time/amps/cost, etc etc. Or, one frosty morning you could offer Mrs CraigC a cold shower, whereupon you will likely get instant direct advice to just power up the HWS.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:15 PM   #37
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Brian,
Why not run the water heater? A small 750 watt heater run for half an hour for shower and dishes would only take 35 AMPs or so. It would be the difference between cold water camping and a comfortable life ��
I agree, unlimited hot water would be too much.
Arch
For hot water I have engine an engine heating loop as well as shore power. But in addition I have another loop with the Webasto hydronic heating system. If I need heat for the boat then I run the normal heating system loop and also make hot water. But if I just want hot water I change the valves to 'summer loop', which gives hot water without going through the hydronic heating circuit. So, I'm never going to be out of hot water, and no need to divert solar Ah for water heating.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:27 PM   #38
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I believe the 30 gallon WH in my boat has a heating element around 3500-3800 watts... So does that mean for one hour I would use 3800/12 = 316 amps? and for 10 minutes, divide by 6, so about 53 amps used? But then, a tank keeps the water hot all the time, so it would be just a flat continuous 316 amps/hour...? Oh, tank heating element runs intermittently, so I would have to look at the specs of the unit itself, eh?
You have a relatively large HW tank, and 3500W + would be a large heating element as well. On USA shore power that'g going to get near 30A draw. My 20 gallon tank has a 1500W element, which is suspect is more typical.

Even with a 1500W element it would take a quite a chunk out of the house bank's capacity - say 60-70 Ah for 30 minutes of heating. I could probably cope with that, but just don't need to given other options to make hot water. However, my boat is wired so that I cannot heat water or run battery chargers off the inverter anyway.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:48 PM   #39
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As it turns out, it is a 20-gal tank, per the survey. My guess is it is also 1500W. I will head over there tomorrow and check it out, find out what make and how old it is, and the draw. I still have a lot to learn about the boat, obviously..

Annoyingly, the WH has been moved about as far away from the heads as it could get, too.

I have started on that spreadsheet! Since I have no Mrs CraigC (yet), Ms. Excel will need to be the stand-in..
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:02 AM   #40
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According to all your inputs, looks like this solar project is going to cost me around US$15,000.

Doest have to cost anything like that.
My victron inverter was $3k
Batteries were the same $3k
Victron batt monitor $200
Midnight Mppt was $750 delivered on ebay
250 watt Jinko panels were something like $140 each delivered ( tier 1 company 2nd hand panels but 9.5 years of warranty left)
A few hours of electricians wages to wire up and it all comes to less than $7000 usd

Household hws does use juice, but not as much as you may think.
when it is running during the day I still have + amps going in via solar, so panels generating more than hws uses.
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