Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-11-2015, 08:15 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
City: southern California
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 141
New electronics, or how to make a small fortune.

That would be: "How to make a small fortune in boating? Start with a big one."

So my new to me trawler came with ancient electronics, some maybe even original from 1979. So it's all coming out, and in with the new.

I am bringing some equipment over from my sailboat, grabbing some stuff I have languishing in the storage bins, and denting the refit budget with some new toys.

I have a Garmin 7608xsv from the sailboat, so that's going to be the centerpiece. It was way easier to uninstall than the 7208, and who doesn't want the coolest toys anyway?

I've purchased a Vesper Marine XB-8000 and a Standard Horizon GX-2000 VHF, and I'll bring the spare VHF over, a SH GX-2150. I splurged and bought the trick sidescan transducers from Garmin, I'll put them in when I haul her in the next month or so. I also have in the bin an Airmar combo depth/speedo that's NMEA2K, so I figure that might as well go in at that time as well.

My plan is to install the plotter at the lower helm, and use my tablet as a repeater up on the flybridge. I have an old Android one I picked up cheap at Costco years ago. And worked really well on the sailboat. The 7608 has built in GPS, but I have a Garmin N2K one sitting, so I'm going to add that as well. I'll be GPS rich!

The radio's are going over the lower helm, and I picked up a pair of RAM mics for the flybridge. I have the same setup in the cockpit of my sailboat, and it works really well. I had a white radio already, so I bought a black one, and the color corresponding remote mics. Both radio's will be hooked up to the Vesper AIS via NMEA0183, so they'll both get GPS data for DSC. The GX2000 also gets its AIS data that way, while the GX2150 has a built in receiver. The plotter gets AIS info via N2K, and I think I have enough marine 8 conductor laying around to run 0183 from the radios down to the plotter, that should get me DSC distress data on the plotter.

I plan to run N2K from the bilge up through the lower helm, then to the flybridge. I'll also run outdoor CAT5 along the same path so that when I finally pop for the Garmin radar this spring it'll be ready to go. The Raytheon CRT I have works, and I blew my budget on the AIS system, so no new radar yet. I have an older Garmin GMI-10 that I was going to put up on the FB, primarily for depth display when anchoring, if I don't want to bother with the fancy tablet and sonar in the anchorages where I already know the bottom well.

I have a new VHF antenna to replace a really old one, and a new AIS antenna with 8 foot riser. I also have a SSB antenna to mount. I haven't decided if I'm going to bring over my Icom 802 and Pactor modem, or just put in a mobile ham radio I have. Still debating that one.

In the end I should have 2 redundant VHF radios, both capable of displaying AIS data. I'll have an AIS transponder so the big boys can see me, as can the wife. I'll have a tricked out sidescan sonar that didn't cost the $25k that the JW Fisher's unit I use at work did. I'll have a plotter that can repeat to a tablet, so it's available at the lower helm and FB alike. Oh, and I bought a real air horn and a hailer horn, so I can alert the paddlers to my presence without yelling...

So, what haven't I thought of? What passage making paranoia am I bringing to coastal cruising that I should forget? What would you add to this, and with what priority? And finally, what haven't I thought of yet that's going to bite me?

Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20151211_171510.jpg
Views:	149
Size:	29.3 KB
ID:	47255  
__________________
Advertisement

questionmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 09:23 PM   #2
Guru
 
City: kemah
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 997
add a autopilot and a radar
__________________

what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 10:15 PM   #3
Guru
 
MYTraveler's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 852
Your comment that your radios display AIS data is fine as long as your are also showing that data on your plotter -- it is much more usable when put in perspective in that way.
MYTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 10:15 PM   #4
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Why do you think you want/need the side scan units?
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 12:08 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
City: southern California
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by what_barnacles View Post
add a autopilot and a radar
We have a functioning Benmar AP, and the Ray 10 works for now. When I restock the refit budget I'll get the Garmin xHD unit.

I'm debating moving the heading sensor from the sailboat. I just never found myself using the overlay feature much, I really prefer the radar plain old heads up. It'll take a couple of months for me to save up for the new radome, so there's no real hurry.
questionmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 12:17 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
City: southern California
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Why do you think you want/need the side scan units?
I don't need them. I do wreck diving, so they'll be handy for that, and for spotting structure in general. I'm really not that much of a fisherman. In that I like to do it, but aren't all that great. I do enjoy spearfishing. Basically, I wanted them more than I wanted new radar so I splurged.

I'm curious to see how they stack up to a real professional unit. This spring I'll grab the guys and the 600kHz fish and do some comparison lines. Considering they were maybe 5% of the price, I'm hoping for a bit more than 5% of the performance. They will be hull mounted, which isn't great, but they're fixed and don't require babysitting, so there's a tradeoff there.

Basically I'm a sonar geek and since I had the sounder already, it was too tempting not to pay the incremental cost and get the transducers.
questionmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 09:51 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Jeff F's Avatar
 
City: London, ON
Country: Canada
Vessel Model: Mainship 34 Original
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 333
I've been busy assembling and configuring components to extend WiFi and cellular data coverage to a local WiFi access point as shown in this diagram from the panbo site.

http://www.panbo.com/assets_c/2015/0...nbo-11112.html
Jeff F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 10:31 AM   #8
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,372
In the past 5 years I have added several new items as the old instruments gave up or were just not up to standards. The BIGGEST waste of money was installing NEMA 2000 Maretron backbone. It is the proverbial "All dressed up and no where to go." Unless you really need it, save your money.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 10:49 AM   #9
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by questionmark View Post
I don't need them. I do wreck diving, so they'll be handy for that, and for spotting structure in general. I'm really not that much of a fisherman. In that I like to do it, but aren't all that great. I do enjoy spearfishing. Basically, I wanted them more than I wanted new radar so I splurged.

I'm curious to see how they stack up to a real professional unit. This spring I'll grab the guys and the 600kHz fish and do some comparison lines. Considering they were maybe 5% of the price, I'm hoping for a bit more than 5% of the performance. They will be hull mounted, which isn't great, but they're fixed and don't require babysitting, so there's a tradeoff there.

Basically I'm a sonar geek and since I had the sounder already, it was too tempting not to pay the incremental cost and get the transducers.
I asked because I have them on the boat I run and they really not useful for just cruising. But for fishing or diving I can see there use.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 11:55 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
City: southern California
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
In the past 5 years I have added several new items as the old instruments gave up or were just not up to standards. The BIGGEST waste of money was installing NEMA 2000 Maretron backbone. It is the proverbial "All dressed up and no where to go." Unless you really need it, save your money.
Thanks. I had everything but a couple of short drop cables and the female terminator already laying around. So for under $100 out of pocket I can run the whole boat. The Vesper translates N2K data to wireless, and the Garmin repeats its data on to N2K, so I can get all my instrumentation into OpenCPN super easy.

Also, I have that N2K depth unit, and my heading sensor is N2K. They make an 0183 cable for the sensor, but it costs more than the bits and bobs to totally go N2K would. I probably could have gotten away with just buying the one terminator and cutting down existing cables I have, but this way it will be cleaner for not much extra coin.

I can see why N2K would be a bad idea to start from scratch. The cables are expensive, the standard is closed, and different vendors have tweaked it to try and lock users into their flavor. It's pretty handy for sailboats, especially for mounting sensors atop the mast.

Just like in life, it seems that "feature creep" is alive and well in my boating. It's the "it'll only cost a tad more to do X" seems to be my mantra lately. I guess I'm lucky in that I have a whole load of cruising spares in the sailboat to pilfer from. Of course, finding a boat we liked at about 1/3 our budget doesn't hurt, either...
questionmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 01:51 PM   #11
Guru
 
MYTraveler's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff F View Post
I've been busy assembling and configuring components to extend WiFi and cellular data coverage to a local WiFi access point as shown in this diagram from the panbo site.

http://www.panbo.com/assets_c/2015/0...nbo-11112.html
I set up a system on my boat configured as per the Panbo diagram. The problem with that configuration is that the Bullet is not accessable from devices on the network since it is outside the router/firewall. The solution is to configure the router as an access point only, and to allow the bullet to act as router.
MYTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 03:11 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Jeff F's Avatar
 
City: London, ON
Country: Canada
Vessel Model: Mainship 34 Original
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by MYTraveler View Post

I set up a system on my boat configured as per the Panbo diagram. The problem with that configuration is that the Bullet is not accessable from devices on the network since it is outside the router/firewall. The solution is to configure the router as an access point only, and to allow the bullet to act as router.
Yup. The diagram should really label the router as a wireless AP. I'm actually using an AP rather than a router.
Jeff F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 03:15 PM   #13
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,201
As long as you know the address of the bullet, you can still access it on the other side of the router.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2015, 12:57 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
City: southern California
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 141
Holy Taiwanese wiring Batman!

So, I finally got an hour or two before the family showed to wire in the new radio's and AIS. Being an idiot, I decided to home run a new duplex wire back to the breaker rather than scab in. MISTAKE!

I see a whole mess of positives, and not a single freaking negative termination anywhere in the dash or dash console. Not one. Everything is terminated "dead bug" style on some instrument or another. I finally started tracing the few wires I knew where negative to try and find the termination bus. That led me down to the engine room where I found it.

I took a picture but of course the forum mobile software still hates my Samsung phone. It's basically a terminal strip with three bays jumped together and a crazy mess of terminals all stacked on them.

So now the wife and kid are inbound, the whole boat is torn apart (her one condition is keep it usable) and as soon as they arrive we all get to go to the chandlery for more overpriced electrical parts and wire. Of all the bits I have in my bins, I don't have a single decent bus bar. So I'm off to get two, one to replace that mess and one for the dash console. And six gauge wire to connect everything up. And then back to Ventura to the sailboat where my battery lug crimps and crimpers are.

The real question is should I text a preemptive apology now or wait till they get here???
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20151221_094659.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	54.1 KB
ID:	47543   Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20151221_094811.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	54.1 KB
ID:	47544   Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20151221_095003.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	54.1 KB
ID:	47545  
questionmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2015, 01:00 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
City: southern California
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 141
Ok, so even though I thought the upload crashed three times, when I see the post there are three sideways pictures on it.

You'd never guess I spent 15 years as a technology professional before changing careers...
questionmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2015, 02:13 PM   #16
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
I've lost track of how many boats I've seen wired like that. Where there is no negative buss to be found.

Some builders just don't seem to use any common sense for a lot of things.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2015, 06:59 AM   #17
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
"Some builders just don't seem to use any common sense for a lot of things."

Sure they do ,,

if the purchaser does not know to look for stuff , it saves time and cash not to install what wont be missed.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2015, 12:05 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
City: southern California
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"Some builders just don't seem to use any common sense for a lot of things."

Sure they do ,,

if the purchaser does not know to look for stuff , it saves time and cash not to install what wont be missed.
I kinda figured the wiring was suspect, based on the age of the boat and what I could see without much effort. The surveyor mentioned things like wire nuts (lots) and uncovered terminal strips.

All systems work with the exception of the horn and windshield wipers. I'm replacing the horn with a real air horn, and I'll deal with the wipers at some point. The lighting is all LED, and there's a nice sound system.

I guess I just assumed (yes I know) that there would be a negative bus next to the panel to terminate any duplex wire runs, and there are a few that were added. It never even occurred to.me it would be otherwise.

So I added two new busses, and spent the extra three bucks to get the covers. I didn't make the drive to go get my battery lug crimpers, so I just ran them with 10 gauge temporarily. If I'm going to run that cable I might as well run a new positive bus as well while I'm at it. I have a remnant of six gauge duplex in the sailboat that should be long enough.

Ah, the joys of project creep... Did I mention the new air horn?

Here's a quick shot of one of the new bus bars, where I've just started moving the wiring. The unshrunk clear heat shrink is for a label. I didn't have my labeler with me, but all cable runs get a label that is covered by clear heat shrink. That way when I forget what I did, I don't have to go digging for the as - built diagram.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20151222_090425.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	56.2 KB
ID:	47578  
questionmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2016, 06:38 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
City: southern California
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 141
Success. Today was a good day.

I've been diligently (more or less) working on the electronics install. Both VHF radios are mounted and powered, the GX2000 is hooked up with an antenna and GPS / AIS feed from a Vesper Marine XB-8000.

The Vesper unit is almost fully installed, the only outstanding item is to mount and wire in the switch to "silent mode." I don't feel the need to broadcast when in the marina. Otherwise it's working great, with its own GPS and VHF antennas mounted to the flybridge rail. I have the switch, just haven't decided where to mount it yet. All the NMEA 0183 stuff is terminated with rings to terminal strips. It's clean, and easy to move wires around when I goof up.

The boat came with a DVD player and a nice LCD flatscreen TV. Unfortunately both were sitting on a counter, wasting space. We don't really watch much TV, not having service at home, so the counterspace means more to me. Last year we got caught out at Santa Rosa Island in 45+ knots, so we ended up hanging out down below. I had my laptop with a couple of DVDs in the case, so we hid out and watched a couple of movies. Quite fun, actually. So I'd like to keep the TV.

I ordered a heavy duty wall mount, and picked up the stainless hardware to mount it. Ouch. Six each of 5/16 bolts, washers, and acorn nuts. I also grabbed a 25' HDMI cable and ran it around the salon behind the wood fascia piece. It may be overkill, but I ran 10 gauge duplex wire with the HDMI for power. Mostly because it was either that or 18 (that I had long enough to make the run), and the volt drop on the 18 would be 2+ volts. It turned out nice, and the mount is solid. I through bolted it through the bulkhead, and I have a strap to secure it underway. It's not going anywhere anytime soon.

All the "comms" gear power is from a fuse block I mounted to the fascia board just below the ceiling. I thought about trying more to hide it, but it didn't fit behind, and this way it's easier to check / change fuses. It has a nice cover, and blends in with the other electronic goodies nearby. That block is home run back to the breaker panel with 10 gauge. It beat pulling five individual runs (there's one for the stereo set aside.)

Here's some photos:


Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20160114_153528.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	30.4 KB
ID:	48132



Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20160114_153555.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	34.7 KB
ID:	48133



Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20160114_153624.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	9.0 KB
ID:	48134

This last one us just with temporary nuts, but was more meant to show the sealant method. A little countersink to the hole, and a donut of butyl tape. It spreads down the hole, in the threads, and under the washer. Totally waterproof. I did all the re-rigging mounting on my sailboat this way, and haven't had any leaks (and have taken a lot of green water aboard.)
questionmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2016, 06:40 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
City: southern California
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 141
I should mention that I haven't dressed any cabling or installed any wire management yet. And the covers for the raceways are off in those pictures. I don't plan on just leaving hanging wires and terminal strips...
__________________

questionmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012