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Old 01-11-2013, 08:05 AM   #21
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Coming down the ICW a couple weeks back...a guy in an 80-footer called Coinjock marina and said he's be there in a couple minutes...well I knew where I was and this guy had never passed me so I grinned and waited.

The dockmaster at Coinjock responded after the guys radio call that if he was at red maker "xx" and had a bridge in sight...it sure wasn't Coinjock!

Turned out the guy was back at Pungo Ferry which I think is at least 20 some miles back...

I can't imagine how anyone could be that confused on that part of the intracoastal...it's like being on a highway with exit signs that match the mile marks and mile marks too boot!!!!
Beaufort NC or Beaufort SC, not even the same state and what set the bridge tender off was the boat kept hailing her as Beaufort pronounced as if they were in SC. Hence the question from her asking the boat where they thought they were.

They drive cars at 70 MPH and vote as well.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:41 AM   #22
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Beaufort NC or Beaufort SC, not even the same state and what set the bridge tender off was the boat kept hailing her as Beaufort pronounced as if they were in SC. Hence the question from her asking the boat where they thought they were.

They drive cars at 70 MPH and vote as well.
wish I was on the radio for that one!
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:01 AM   #23
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Got my navigation basics from Navy OCS in '64, but the celestial nav skills are moribund, the Loran's extinct, and all that remains from those days is the ability to plot a course, position and DR on a chart (yes, I have them, even though my ICW environs rarely require it). I have chart-plotters on both helms, so I haven't gotten lost yet.
I recall a few years back a couple of commercial airline pilots landed at the wrong field, so I suppose there is no end to the stories that can be told about navigation fubars.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:55 AM   #24
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Only a few miles. Last summer while waiting for the draw bridge in Beaufort NC I was having an early morning (5:30 AM) chat with the Bridge Tender. The subject came up of folks not knowing where they were and she swears that eariler in the spring she had a boat that was headed south that thought they were in Beaufort all right but Beaufort SC. That's several hundred miles off.
I've woken up before and not known where I was, but I always knew what state I was in.

The state of Confusion.

I've listened to conversations where someone was talking about Beaufort and got confused about what state they were talking about. Again, that confusion thing.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:14 AM   #25
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Some guys just never know where they are and likely don't use either their charts or their electronics. I use both but have to admit I rely a lot on my electronics. In the Great Lakes however we don't have tides and current usually only in rivers and not usually out of site of land for more than an hour or two. Do use my compass religiously though as a back up.


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Old 01-11-2013, 10:25 AM   #26
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Yup to all. The Navy taught me well

Nothing like having to calculate set & drift, compensating and correcting courses WHILE having to calculate true wind and Fox Corpen (course and speed to steer the ship to get the wind at the correct direction and speed for flight ops)....

Anybody able to use a moboard? At multiple ranges at the same time?
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:39 AM   #27
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Yes, all the plotting tools are on the boat. Yes, we run with paper charts paralleling our electronics. When I started boating that is all we had. Then it was RDF. Then Loran A single track. Then Loran C. Then chart plotters. We did them all, but still keep up on paper charts.
Ditto.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:05 AM   #28
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Greetings,
One item we use is a Post-it type flag on the paper charts in conjunction with the plotter. It's a quick "you are here" reference if one just wants to glance at a chart and can be moved to indicate your last known position. I usually keep the plotter/depth finder in the 1/2 to 1 mile range to take best advantage of the immediate and immediately approaching depth readings. A glance at the chart tends to give me the bigger picture.
*Post-itŪ Arrow Flags, Bright Colors, 1/2 in Wide, 100/On-the-Go Dispenser
While basically a "magenta line cruiser" I have no problem deviating from the "suggested" course to minimize groundings. In spite of the newest software, boating on the east coast is still a crap shoot considering the shifting sand bars and tidal rivers/sounds wrt the "line".
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:24 AM   #29
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Yup to all. The Navy taught me well

Nothing like having to calculate set & drift, compensating and correcting courses WHILE having to calculate true wind and Fox Corpen (course and speed to steer the ship to get the wind at the correct direction and speed for flight ops)....

Anybody able to use a moboard? At multiple ranges at the same time?
how about using one of these to be even quicker....
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:28 AM   #30
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I recall a few years back a couple of commercial airline pilots landed at the wrong field, so I suppose there is no end to the stories that can be told about navigation fubars.
That would have been at Opa Locka FL. Eastern Airlines or American 727 I believe. Came out of the clouds at night declared they had a visual of Miami 9 and in fact they were looking at Opa Locka 9. They landed without any problems but when they taxied about a bit they couldn't find a real terminal. The passengers were off loaded to a bus and taken to MIA.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:28 AM   #31
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I grew up on charts (Navy parents), and they're great for planning and spot checking things. We use post-its too. Helps with note making for things like anchorages and the like. The web based "know it all" sites are good, but it's my opinion that counts, unless it's the wifes opinion, and then that's the one that counts . The cool thing is when you get a new chart, just more the post-its.

Hadn't thought about the big "You are Here, and going this way" arrow though. Could be handy. Maybe get a brasss one, or a small brass boat that could double as a chart weight. I get royalties for that idea if someone goes to production with it.

Electronics are cool too, so don't get me wrong. It's kind of reassuring to see your location on the e-chart, but that had better mesh up with what you're seeing on the water and in the water. And that's the thing I remember being taught at an early age, to read the water. Depth sounders are good, but only below the boat, not 100 feet off the bow, in the bend in the river, etc.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:34 AM   #32
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That would have been at Opa Locka FL. Eastern Airlines or American 727 I believe. Came out of the clouds at night declared they had a visual of Miami 9 and in fact they were looking at Opa Locka 9. They landed without any problems but when they taxied about a bit they couldn't find a real terminal. The passengers were off loaded to a bus and taken to MIA.
It's happened way more than once and not just at just Opa Locka...I was stationed there in 1980-1983 when it was either a 727 or 707 landed and was too heavy to take back off so the pax were bused down to Miami Int. That the incident you were referring to?

I once was steered by my ILS system to Miami, Int instead of Opa Locka because the glideslope and course indicator cannon plugs were reversed...fortunately it was visual so we only went a little of the way off course just as traffic control started screaming WTF!!!
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:35 AM   #33
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how about using one of these to be even quicker....
Indeed! I got so used to swinging dividers that it's easier to whip out the info that way...
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:38 PM   #34
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I can do all of those things, but would only resort to using paper charts if the GPS plotter went down. When we started boating, a vessel had the "typical electronics" if it came equipped with a rotary depth sounder and a VHF radio.

That said, I do have a full inventory of charts covering our normal cruising grounds and the appropriate chart is always open on the chart table. The dividers, parallel rules, and pencil remain within easy reach- and I still remember how to use all three.

As a coastal navigator, I have never bothered to learn to use a sextant.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:50 PM   #35
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I once was steered by my ILS system to Miami, Int instead of Opa Locka because the glideslope and course indicator cannon plugs were reversed...fortunately it was visual so we only went a little of the way off course just as traffic control started screaming WTF!!!
Cannon plugs reversed? Could never happen. They're different receivers on different bands. Localizers are VHF and the GS is a co-channeled UHF signal.

More likely that the wrong localizer frequency was tuned by the pilot.

We saw deviations like this on a regular basis in San Diego. Montgomery Field (MYF) is a short runway general aviation airport that is hard to see sometimes and has an ILS to Rwy 28R. Four NM north is NAS Miramar (NKX) (now Marine) with long Rwys 24L and R. Quite frequently pilots would break out of the clouds several miles out on final and see NKX before seeing MYF and drift to the right toward the final to NKX.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:20 PM   #36
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This was related to me by Carey a number of years ago. I believe he was out in his dinghy off Sucia Island in the San Juans when he was flagged down by a fellow in some sort of cabin cruiser. Carey went over and the guy wanted to know if Carey could show him on his chart where he was. Carey said sure, and the guy got his chart out.

It was a very old, very worn road map of Washington, one of those folding gas station ones. Carey gave him a somewhat tactful talk about charts and why one should have them. The fellow said that's okay, he'd been using this road map for years now but he just wasn't sure where he was at the moment.

So Carey told him and left him to his own devices.

That's the thing with boats. In the US, at any rate, all you need to take up boating is the money to buy one. After that it's up to you. Lots of candidates out there for the Darwin Award.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:41 PM   #37
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how about using one of these [Jeppesen CR-3 aviation calculator] to be even quicker....
We have a couple of those of course, but they (don't remember who" they" are) make one specifically for boating. We bought one right after getting the GB along with all the other stuff for manual plotting and calculating.

One thing we have which can be helpful even using electronic navigation is one of these (photo). It's an electronic distance measurer. You enter the scale of the chart, zero the readout, and then roll the tip along the route. The display shows the distance from the start point as you roll along.

Even if we don't actually plot our courses on a chart this thing is real handy for rolling along your intended route to determine the distance and thus fuel burn and whatever else you want to know relating to the travel distance. Comes in a nice case, uses one or two AAA batteries IIRC.

You can do the same thing by walking a set of dividers, and we do that too, sometimes. But this thing is faster (once you learn how to enter the data it needs) and you can measure along a curve more accurately.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:51 PM   #38
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Greetings,
I think the Maptech software has a mileage overlay ring feature. We have used this option on approaches to bridges to inform the bridge tender as to our ETA for an opening. Of course it's not as good as your device Mr. Marin, for a circuitous distance estimation. Yup, VERY occasionally use dividers as well.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:57 PM   #39
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:57 PM   #40
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Cannon plugs reversed? Could never happen. They're different receivers on different bands. Localizers are VHF and the GS is a co-channeled UHF signal.

More likely that the wrong localizer frequency was tuned by the pilot.

We saw deviations like this on a regular basis in San Diego. Montgomery Field (MYF) is a short runway general aviation airport that is hard to see sometimes and has an ILS to Rwy 28R. Four NM north is NAS Miramar (NKX) (now Marine) with long Rwys 24L and R. Quite frequently pilots would break out of the clouds several miles out on final and see NKX before seeing MYF and drift to the right toward the final to NKX.
Sorry...but it's true...HH52A circa 1982. The avionics tech showed me.

After that...at least on HH52A avionics different cannon plugs were used so they couldn't be reversed.


I remember that day as if it were yesterday. The copilot and I were scratching our heads for more than a few minutes.
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