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Old 07-20-2014, 10:04 PM   #21
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Could be baud rate - try some higher rates?
Maybe, I suspect 9600 would be the max though.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:18 PM   #22
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I'd look into how CE operates with multiple USB 0183 devices connected. It sounds like you have many. Somehow you need to tell it which one (or ones) to send the nav info to. Maybe it automatically sends it to all of them, but maybe not. I just don't know. All my experience with CE has beed with N2K native to CE i.e. no 0183.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:33 PM   #23
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After reviewing everything I came to the conclusion that everything on the boat right now is still 0183. The Vesper I simply plugged into the CE via the USB ports on both pcs of hardware. I purchased the Rose Point GPS plugged it into the other open USB on the computer. The Simrad AP 20 is 0183 as well, bought a USB 0183 cable from Milltech and plugged it into the CE. (6 USB ports on the back of the computer makes life easy).
The E-120 is a completely stand alone back up plotter with 0183 to the AP as well. It is also the radar.
When I get the Maretron fuel management system installed I figure I'll plug it into the CE via its nmea 2000 converter into another USB port. If I add anything after that I simply add to the nmea 2000 back bone.

This actually was pretty simple EXCEPT I cannot for the life of me get my Simrad AP20 to accept the data in NAV mode. I have it hooked up from CE (talker) 4800 baud, only using the TX mode. This should be pretty simple, ran it this way out of the previous software (Raysoft) without a problem for 8 years. So why the blank is it not working now? Everything else with the AIS fired right up.

Anybody got any ideas?
I am not familiar with CE, but are the NMEA OUT sentences configurable, and is it transmitting the proper sentences (like APB) for the AP-20 to navigate with?

By the way, if your system uses the J300X Junction Box, you have two NMEA inputs so you could also connect the E-120 as a backup source for the AP-20. The J3000X has only one NMEA input though.

Good luck, sounds like you are close.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:38 AM   #24
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I'd look into how CE operates with multiple USB 0183 devices connected. It sounds like you have many. Somehow you need to tell it which one (or ones) to send the nav info to. Maybe it automatically sends it to all of them, but maybe not. I just don't know. All my experience with CE has beed with N2K native to CE i.e. no 0183.
CE does have the ability to isolate the AP, I've done that. I actually don't have that much stuff, once it was broken down it was 1 AIS in, 1 AP out, the GPS is proprietary.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:42 AM   #25
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I am not familiar with CE, but are the NMEA OUT sentences configurable, and is it transmitting the proper sentences (like APB) for the AP-20 to navigate with?

By the way, if your system uses the J300X Junction Box, you have two NMEA inputs so you could also connect the E-120 as a backup source for the AP-20. The J3000X has only one NMEA input though.

Good luck, sounds like you are close.
Yes the sentences are configurable, I suspect that may be the issue, I need to figure out what "list" I need and minimize what is being transmitted. It looks like CE is might be sending the whole library. I do have the 300X and yes the E-120 is going to the NMEA2 port (eventually)
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:44 AM   #26
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Maybe, I suspect 9600 would be the max though.
I did go to the boat this morning and tried using different baud rates no luck.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:12 AM   #27
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Yes the sentences are configurable, I suspect that may be the issue, I need to figure out what "list" I need and minimize what is being transmitted. It looks like CE is might be sending the whole library. I do have the 300X and yes the E-120 is going to the NMEA2 port (eventually)
The two common NMEA 0183 Autopilot sentences are APA and APB.

APA Autopilot Sentence "A"
$--APA,A,A,x.xx,L,N,A,A,xxx,M,c---c*hh
1) Status V = LORAN-C Blink or SNR warning A = general warning flag or other navigation systems when a reliable fix is not available
2) Status V = Loran-C Cycle Lock warning flag A = OK or not used
3) Cross Track Error Magnitude
4) Direction to steer, L or R
5) Cross Track Units (Nautic miles or kilometres)
6) Status A = Arrival Circle Entered
7) Status A = Perpendicular passed at waypoint
8) Bearing origin to destination
9) M = Magnetic, T = True
10) Destination Waypoint ID
11) checksum

APB Autopilot Sentence "B"

$--APB,A,A,x.x,a,N,A,A,x.x,a,c--c,x.x,a,x.x,a*hh
1) Status V = LORAN-C Blink or SNR warning A = general warning flag or other navigation systems when a reliable fix is not available
2) Status V = Loran-C Cycle Lock warning flag A = OK or not used
3) Cross Track Error Magnitude
4) Direction to steer, L or R
5) Cross Track Units, N = Nautical Miles
6) Status A = Arrival Circle Entered
7) Status A = Perpendicular passed at waypoint
8) Bearing origin to destination
9) M = Magnetic, T = True
10) Destination Waypoint ID
11) Bearing, present position to Destination
12) M = Magnetic, T = True
13) Heading to steer to destination waypoint
14) M = Magnetic, T = True
15) Checksum

Note: Some autopilots, Robertson in particular, misinterpret "bearing from origin to destination" as "bearing from present position to destination". This is likely due to the difference between the APB sentence and the APA sentence. for the APA sentence this would be the correct thing to do for the data in the same field. APA only differs from APB in this one field and APA leaves off the last two fields where this distinction is clearly spelled out. This will result in poor performance if the boat is sufficiently off-course that the two bearings are different.

Simplifying the data string out should definitely help in this situation, especially since it is a dedicated autopilot port.

Best of luck!
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:08 PM   #28
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Well getting no where fast on this. CE provides a whole bunch of words to choose from (APA, APB,) does anybody have a definitive list of what to tick and what not to tick. While I'm at it if any CE masters are out there can you tell me the sequence for setting a waypoint and sending it to the AP just in case I'm doing something really stupid.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:22 PM   #29
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If all you are driving is an autopilot, APA or APB should be all you need. Those 'Autopilot' sentences are tailored for just that purpose. Try APA first and if that works, then try APB because it provides slightly more information for more advanced autopilots. If autopilot performance is erratic with APB, go back to APA.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:31 PM   #30
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If all you are driving is an autopilot, APA or APB should be all you need. Those 'Autopilot' sentences are tailored for just that purpose. Try APA first and if that works, then try APB because it provides slightly more information for more advanced autopilots. If autopilot performance is erratic with APB, go back to APA.
So your saying turn off all the other words?
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:14 PM   #31
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So your saying turn off all the other words?
Actually, the RMB (Recommended Minimum Navigation Information) sentence is all that is required by most autopilots. Give it a try first.

Then compare it to APB. You probably won't notice a difference, but APB provides more information that some autopilots can use.

Most likely, either will work for you.

And yes, turn off all the other sentences.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:07 PM   #32
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To make a long story short, when the AIS sent data through the multiplexer the C120 insisted that it lost its GPS location fix and set off an alarm.

Discussions with Raymarine tech support followed and they said the few seconds the AIS information was in the data stream was enough to cause the MFD to timeout. There is no way to change that.
.....

Maybe the E series is smarter than the C series.
Crap! I don't think so. We're dealing with identical symptoms on a new E series install.

I was thinking it might be a poor connection somewhere to the AIS antenna. Sounds like I should try a different filtering script on the multiplexer before I tear the antenna out and replace it.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:58 PM   #33
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Actually, the RMB (Recommended Minimum Navigation Information) sentence is all that is required by most autopilots. Give it a try first.

Then compare it to APB. You probably won't notice a difference, but APB provides more information that some autopilots can use.

Most likely, either will work for you.

And yes, turn off all the other sentences.
No luck Larry, tried them all. Even reversed the polarity as a last resort.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:07 PM   #34
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CE has some diagnostic modes where it will show you what it's transmitting and receiving. Have you played around with that at all? It might reveal what's going out on which port, and perhaps give a clue or two.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:15 PM   #35
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CE has some diagnostic modes where it will show you what it's transmitting and receiving. Have you played around with that at all? It might reveal what's going out on which port, and perhaps give a clue or two.
I've seen them, but in all honesty didn't dig to far into them, they were just spewing data.
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:10 PM   #36
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No luck Larry, tried them all. Even reversed the polarity as a last resort.
I'm sorry I don't know more about CE. I like twistedtree's suggestion to use the diagnostics mode to identify data and port utilization.

Just to verify the JX300 is working properly, you could connect your E120 to the NMEA 1 (In) and make sure it is selectable by the AP20. Then switch it to the NMEA 2 (In) and again, make sure it is selectable. Leave it connected since that is what you mentioned you were planning.

If the AP20/JX300 pass that test, then you can be certain that you are only looking at CE, the port connections, and the data it is sending to the Autopilot.

The Simrad AP20/21/22 - JX300 is a very common autopilot and I can't imagine someone hasn't successfully connected one to CE.

I found this thread on the forum that speaks to connecting the AP20 to CE that may help with the interfaces.

Must be some simple setting that is being overlooked. It's not rocket surgery . . . . . . although sometimes it seems like it

Best of luck to you,

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Old 07-24-2014, 05:12 PM   #37
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nav Upgrade-NMEA decision to make

We have two AP-20 AP's (Ones a back up) I find that APB tends to mess up our course and steer us in the wrong direction, so we use RMB.
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Old 07-24-2014, 05:17 PM   #38
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Also do you have the right input source selected on the AP?

That can be done by swiftly tapping NAV twice> Then using the red and green arrows to scroll down to NAV.Source> Then use the knob to select which source> Then press STBY to get back to your regular screen.
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:56 PM   #39
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We have two AP-20 AP's (Ones a back up) I find that APB tends to mess up our course and steer us in the wrong direction, so we use RMB.
Oliver since you actually have an AP20 connected to CE you're my new best friend! OK back to reality here.
I installed this AP personally in 03 (?) So I'm pretty good with it. Always had 2 nmea inputs connected. Unit has functioned flawlessly. I decided to upgrade from another nav software to CE while I was installing an E120 as my replacement backup system. I'm still in process on the E120.
Can you confirm what sentences you actually use with the CE? Then I can eliminate that.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Trawler
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:59 PM   #40
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nav Upgrade-NMEA decision to make

LOL, I actually don't have CE, we have garmin. Should of said that, sorry about that. I would use RMB, assuming CE has the choice, APB didn't work well with our AP20's.
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