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Old 12-04-2013, 06:08 PM   #1
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Muir Winch Quits

My Muir Cougar 1200w winch quit, no warning signs. It is a typical horizontal type, locally designed and built, good reputation, commonly fitted. Control is by foot switch. Only issue, it always ran consistently slower in the 3 years I had it than a similar one on my last boat.
The circuit breaker is not tripping. I have not yet located an isolator which should be fitted between battery source and circuit breaker, but power reaches the foot switch so that seems a non issue. I tried a new foot switch (existing a Lucas switch, suspect for age and make), no change.
So I`m thinking winch motor, and currently waiting a visit from the marine electrics guy.
Meantime, any thoughts?
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:00 PM   #2
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I'm spoiled living in a major agricultural area of California, I'd just yank it off and take it to my local pump rebuilder. This local company rebuilds anything with an electric motor or generator to factory new condition and has for 70 years. Perhaps you have a similar industrial electrical shop in your corner of Oz? Perhaps an automotive starter repair shop as those gents know their way around too.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:01 PM   #3
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Is it like a starter motor on a car, where you could tap the solenoid to get it going again?
Could it be that?
Obviously I am no expert
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:43 PM   #4
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Bruce I had a similar problem with my winch, a Lofrans, the sparkies replaced the motor with a second hand Muir job, not very expensive, and all was good.
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Old 12-04-2013, 08:21 PM   #5
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Thanks guys. It`s a simple set up, power goes to a foot switch, which leads to the winch, which is separately earthed. The Manual mentions a solenoid, but I think it`s only fitted when you have up/down power controls. I forgot to say when I tested for power on the 2 terminals of the switch I could light up an LED spot bulb,(all I had to use to test),which meant I had an earth. This switch when closed just sends power to the separately earthed winch, so that`s odd. That`s why I suspect the winch motor is deranged.
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:49 PM   #6
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I have a Muir Cougar the toe switches on mine energize a relay that powers the motor to raise or lower. The relays were added later because to toe switches would arc & burn the contacts, that caused resistance & low voltage till it finally quit. Cleaning the contacts would fix it for a while & that's why relays were added to carry the heavy electrical loads. Good Luck
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:14 AM   #7
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I think its a relay. Just bridge the (big,fat) terminals across the relay with a jumper (I don't know your relay setup but a screwdriver [boat prybar] worked on mine). The motor should run. If it doesn't, tear the motor off and take it apart and clean it inside thoroughly with contact cleaner, rough up the commutator with fine sandpaper, clean all the copper dust off, grease the bearings and reassemble. You can tell if it needs new brushes, put some in if it does...You might even paint the case if you want to go crazy. If the motor DOES run, buy a new solenoid.

You did check the fuse/breaker, right? The motor should have its own.

There, just saved you $200.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:32 AM   #8
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Greetings,
Mr. BK. "existing a Lucas switch"... Well, there's your problem right there mate!

You've lost the smoke.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:21 PM   #9
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Greetings,
Mr. BK. "existing a Lucas switch"... Well, there's your problem right there mate!

You've lost the smoke.
Obvious experience with early model British automobiles. Lucas, "prince of darkness".
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:51 PM   #10
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Obvious experience with early model British automobiles. Lucas, "prince of darkness".
Sorry for the thread creep, but it gets even worse, Lucas actually manufactured a pacemaker . . . .

Can you imagine going through life with a LUCAS PACEMAKER??
Sorry, I couldn't resist
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Thanks guys. It`s a simple set up, power goes to a foot switch, which leads to the winch, which is separately earthed. The Manual mentions a solenoid, but I think it`s only fitted when you have up/down power controls. I forgot to say when I tested for power on the 2 terminals of the switch I could light up an LED spot bulb,(all I had to use to test),which meant I had an earth. This switch when closed just sends power to the separately earthed winch, so that`s odd. That`s why I suspect the winch motor is deranged.
Bruce, this happened to my winch (a Nilssons), when it had gone unused longer than usual while I was overseas 2 yrs ago. Having not missed a beat ever in the 10 yrs I had then owned it, so I was shocked. I took it off and into the electrical guy and all it needed was new brushes and a general clean-up, and now going good as new again, so don't lose heart. It is almost certainly repairable, and might not cost that much even.
PS. Do yourself that favour and add in that chain counter we talked about while you are at it. See 'marking chain' thread to remind yourself.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:41 PM   #12
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I completely understand the Lucas issue, but a new Muir switch I bought (cause I blamed the switch) made no difference. I`ll get on the boat tomorrow, I need to get the back off the switch panel to see what other bits are there (?relay, solenoid), while I`ve got someone to press the foot switch.
I did not check the breaker switch itself, but there is power at the foot switch, which is downstream. I called Muir for service guys, they suggested low voltage causes slow running, I have plenty of battery and idle engines at 1000rpm during retrieve, so it`s more likely an issue of getting power there, or the winch motor, as several have suggested.
I think it will help if I get an electrics guy onboard, I`ll look at it again armed with the welcome input, but there are a lot of potential causes.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:42 PM   #13
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I got a boat electrician in to resolve all possible causes, everything tested ok (even the Lucas switch!) except the winch itself. We took it off, without dismantling it looked all its 32 years. The elec guy said take it Muir, who have a Sydney workshop, I did, now waiting on a quote. A new 1200w "Cheetah", which I have, is 4K, a 1000w Cougar $2800, leaving plenty of scope for repair. It is seriously heavy, the case is alloy, that leaves the motor and gearbox,the less I carry it the better for my back.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:50 PM   #14
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The verdict: new motor, $1100 plus 10% GST(tax); plus $125-150(plus GST) if the cover needs grinding down slightly to take the new slightly larger motor. I said yes.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:27 AM   #15
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The verdict: new motor, $1100 plus 10% GST(tax); plus $125-150(plus GST) if the cover needs grinding down slightly to take the new slightly larger motor. I said yes.
I can get new QUICK DP2 1000W winches for $1000.00 with remote switches and manufacturers warrantee in 12V or 24V. I Have a friend that owns a marine wholesale company. PM me if you're interested.

I bought one for AXE and am stoked with the quality an the savings. Got it for less than half price.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:35 AM   #16
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The verdict: new motor, $1100 plus 10% GST(tax); plus $125-150(plus GST) if the cover needs grinding down slightly to take the new slightly larger motor. I said yes.
No chance that a re builder can repair the existing motor??? we have a local that is a ex Brit that runs a proper electric motor rebuild shop... full of the prerequisite old massively over sized machinery.. he even rebuilt my old windless off Volunteer that had been made from the bomb bay door motor from a B-24 Liberator ( circa 1942 )

$ 1100 sounds like a lot for just the motor.. but then again I am used to US prices

Good Luck,
HOLLYWOOD
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:41 AM   #17
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No chance that a re builder can repair the existing motor??? ... sounds like a lot for just the motor.. but then again I am used to US pricesHOLLYWOOD
Thanks Hollywood, They say not repairable, Muir have an ok reputation, at least I get a brand new one, hopefully pulling the claimed 48ft per minute. Seems a lot, a new one is 4K...oh well, it`s a boat.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:49 AM   #18
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I can get new QUICK DP2 1000W winches for $1000.00 with remote switches and manufacturers warrantee in 12V or 24V. I Have a friend that owns a marine wholesale company. PM me if you're interested.

I bought one for AXE and am stoked with the quality an the savings. Got it for less than half price.
Sounds a great deal. Mine is horizontal, not vertical, changes are possible but I just have to bolt this one back on. The other major parts are the gearbox, spindle and gypsy, they are ok, a new motor should be good, but you`re right, a lot of $. Hope your "Quick" deal helps someone in Oz.
Glad to hear the weather has improved so you can progress. All the best.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:34 AM   #19
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$ 1100 sounds like a lot for just the motor.. but then again I am used to US prices
I had a quote on a muir 3500 rewound from 24v to 12v not that long ago and it was about $350

I also see that a brand new Maxwell motor, admittedly a smaller size is only $185 from the Brisbane rep.
Anchor Winch Motor Suits Maxwell Freedom 500M 12 Volt | eBay

Are maxwell/muir motors interchangeable? Might be worth giving Craig a call.
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:17 AM   #20
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Mine is horizontal, not vertical
Hmmm sounds like another mammoth "single V twin" thread in the making there! Horizontal V Vertical lol
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