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Old 12-12-2013, 05:38 AM   #21
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Bruce seems expensive to me also. As I posted in a previous thread , We got a reconditioned Muir motor for our Lofran winch for $245.00. About 5 years ago though.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:15 PM   #22
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Muir on the Cougar used two different motors, one had power down & the other you had to unlock the ratchet dog back off the clutch & let it free fall. Mine is the power down type & a good starter repair shop can rebuild it for around $100.00, that was in 2010. Bearings, brushes & clean up the armature, if I remember right it was a Fiat part.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:38 AM   #23
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The winch came back, the terminal cable bolts of the only possible new motor protruding a full inch below the screw on base-plate. Muir: "gee, we didn`t notice that". Unable to cut into the platform the winch sits on (post right underneath), so made a 1 &1/4" thick wood spacer fitting the winch case footprint, thus both allowing for terminals and providing a vital replacement base-plate, and channeled it to take cables, connected exactly as Muir advised, for up only operation.
Got it all nicely fitted, tried it, operating down not up! Thanks again Muir! Pulled the whole thing off, half set Sika under the timber plate and on top of it, Sika mess everywhere (boat, us, clothes, tools), refitted the cables, modified the cable channels, and refitted it. The Sika which should look nice and smooth, looks anything but, probably fixable.
The good part: fixed and fitted before Xmas, fast as a fast thing on retrieve, the existing winch mounting bolts also secure the wood spacer so no extra cut holes in boat.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:38 AM   #24
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Sounds like a fun day Bruce. I hate cleaning up after a battle with Sikaflex, especially black Sika.

Still you are up and running in time for Christmas.
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:44 AM   #25
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Bruce, this possibly not a great time to raise this, but my winch used to be up only, but it was not that hard for a marine sparky to make a mod that allowed power up and down...and I love it. I can do the whole anchoring thing from the helm, up or down, and the down is really good when driving into an anchorage from the flybridge where you do get a good view all round in terms of relationship to other boats, and the depth changes are often visible as well.
'course it would have to come off again to do it...sorry...
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:55 AM   #26
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Bruce, this possibly not a great time to raise this, but my winch used to be up only, but it was not that hard for a marine sparky to make a mod that allowed power up and down....
'course it would have to come off again to do it...sorry...
AAAGGGHHH!!
Today, to accommodate the extra 30mm pad and washers, we fitted 2 longer 316 bolts ( price pre negotiation at Mr.Stainless $30.80 ea) plus a longer coach screw to one corner, screwed into wet bog filler in a screwhole which was holding nothing. I know I should have epoxied it, or plugged and drilled it but the winch has had enough of my Xmas. It`s not coming off foreseeably; if/when it may not be another Muir Cheetah. But it does run fast!
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:02 AM   #27
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Pulled the whole thing off, half set Sika under the timber plate and on top of it, Sika mess everywhere (boat, us, clothes, tools), refitted the cables, modified the cable channels, and refitted it.

You couldn't have just swapped the cables around someplace inside the boat?
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:20 PM   #28
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You couldn't have just swapped the cables around someplace inside the boat?
Rick, I appreciate the thought, I`m no electrician, maybe it`s possible, the motor has 3 terminals-up/down/negative, we swapped the power ones. It`s a basic set up, gravity freefall, powered retrieve via the bow footswitch.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:01 AM   #29
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Something odd. We briefly ran the winch, just to tighten the chain after reinstalling the anchor on the bow, it was fine. Went out overnight, scored a mooring in Sugarloaf so removed the anchor to give a straight run for the mooring line. Departing, we refitted the anchor, confidently pressed the foot switch, nothing. It had rained heavily overnight, but I think we had the winch well sealed, no sign of water entry.
Today we checked for power at all points from footswitch to winch. We get 13.5v all the way to the 2 cable ends which bolt to the the winch terminals. But bolt them on and test, we get no power reading at all. Monday I`ll take it back to Muir. Although the old motor was reported a total write off, two possible successive motor failures, is there something I`m missing?
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:26 AM   #30
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Unlikely Bruce, but hey - here's your chance while/if it's off again to get that mod done so you have power down as well. If possible I'd also have a switch installed at both helms. Standing there in the dark and wet using a foot switch is just not de rigeur any more. You would NEVER regret having the helm up down option, even if you still like to stand next to it and operate a food switch from time to time in nice conditions. I guarantee you you hardly ever would mind you, because then anchoring is a one person thing, and you can then gently throttle back to lay the chain out and dig it in a bit to set it…not that your Sarca needs much setting…and without needing someone else at the helm…or you running to and fro…
Sorry, but if it does have to come off again - or it you ever get a new one, these points are worth considering.
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:18 AM   #31
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... the motor has 3 terminals-up/down/negative ... we checked for power at all points from footswitch to winch. We get 13.5v all the way to the 2 cable ends which bolt to the the winch terminals. But bolt them on and test, we get no power reading at all.
Are you saying you are using a meter and get a voltage reading at the motor terminal end of the positive and negative cables with the cables disconnected from the motor? Is this voltage present even when the foot switch is not closed by stepping on it?

Does the voltage reading drop to zero when the leads are connected to the motor but the foot switch is not closed?

Try placing a 12V light bulb between the terminals on the motor and see if it lights up when the switch is closed. Try the same test with the light bulb between the wires when they are disconnected from the motor.

It really does sound like your foot switch is bad. A digital voltmeter will indicate voltage even when the switch has far too much resistance to conduct any useful amount of current. If you are reading voltage without a foot on the switch, that shows the switch is faulty and is leaking a small amount of current ... probably soaking wet inside with seawater.

As soon as you connect the wires to the motor, the motor presents a low(er) resistance and you get no voltage reading. If you don't get any voltage at the connected terminals with the foot switch closed, it's the switch.

Take a battery and jumper cables to the bow and connect to the motor terminals (wires off - don't touch threaded stud directly, connect to nuts only or you will damage the threads) if it works then, it proves the switch is the culprit.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:06 PM   #32
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Thanks Peter and Rick for responding. We brought the winch home, just tested it on the car battery, and it runs.
We are testing with a meter. We get power at the cable ends unconnected, but connected, switch operated, nothing. The winch working led us to suspect the switch of failing under load or intermittently too. I don`t think we tested for power, cables connected, switch not operated.
I bent (because of how I thought I`d need to fit it) and unbent the lugs on end of the -cable connecting the winch, it seems too flexible at the lugs so I`ll replace it. If nothing changes I`ll replace the switch. I could not trace the earth cable attachment point, I will try that again.
I will leave wiring it to the helm for now, under pressure to get us mobile for NYE fireworks, we need a functioning winch for anchoring in around 20M of water amongst numerous boats.
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Old 12-28-2013, 02:18 AM   #33
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We changed the foot switch, and all is good. It is well bedded in Sikaflex. This winch motor runs much faster than the old one, I`m sure we had both motor and switch issues, old age probably in both cases. Thank you all very much for your help, especially RickB with the diagnostic steps. We can now think about the Sydney NYE fireworks.
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