More solar questions....

[muttskie]

I was a able to get part of a day to try and install that panel. The weather was good and tomorrow calls for wind and rain.

My wife was able to come out to help me lift the panel up on the PH roof and get it in place. Once there, the slope and curve of the PH roof became apparent. I had to do some adjusting to mounts so their base will sit flush on the roof. I used the 3M VHB tape and then (in the dark unfortunately) used 4200 to seal the edge of the tape bond.

When I got the panel in place I quickly wired it up just as the sun was about to go below the hills. I connected the Victron app to the SmartSolar controller and saw that the panel was putting out a whopping 4 watts just before the sun when below the hills. At least it tells me that it was basically wired up correctly.

I did discover that somehow I killed the saloon light circuit, so I need to figure that out.

I will try and take some photos this weekend.

Nice. Congratulations. I'll be interested in the coming performance reports.

I am earlier in the process than you are. I have been acquiring the necessary pieces, wiring, etc. and am ready to begin the wiring installation. I am locating the Victron 100/50 in the aft engine room close to the battery bank (for temperature equivalency). I also have to run the Victron VE Direct cable from the controller back up to the pilot house to the Color Control GX and BMV712 monitor. At the same time I am going to add a Balmar Smart Gauge (another cable run from the battery bank up to the pilot house!) as another monitor to compliment the BMV712. I had one of these on my sailboat and it is very useful.

I am interested in your comment about the pilothouse roof curvature. One of the issues about this process is the need, or lack of, to mount panels on a flat plane. I know you have only one panel, so it does not apply to you, but I am mounting two panels. Would anyone care to opine about mounting them on a flat plane or not? It would be easy for me to mount them with a couple of degrees of difference between them. Not much really. Not more than 4-5 degrees total. Thoughts?

I'll try to post some in-process pictures of my install once I have something to take a picture of.

 

[motion30]

I think it's okay for your panels to have some pitch and helps the rain runoff. On my flybridge roof I had to make the outside legs of the panel longer than the inside legs as it curb from the center after the edges. I did use the 3M High stick tape the mount the angles to the roof and so far it has worked out very well but it it's only been 3 months

 

[dhays]

OK, here are some photos.

It is terrible weather today. Dark, gray low ceiling with lots of rain.


This is what the VictronConnect app showed when I got to the boat this afternoon. 12:15 pm and only 270 Wh produced by the panel so far today.


This is where the Victron SmartSolar 100/30 is located underneath the chart table in the PH. It is right above the pos and neg bus bars. Yes, it would be better to have it next to the batteries, but I’m too lazy to run the wires. Those bus bars are connected to 70mm cables though so the voltage drop will be minimal.


A couple shots of how it looks from the front. Of course, at water or dock level it won’t be seen.


The mounting. The brackets have white Tef-Gel all over them and the base is sealed with 4200. You can probably tell that the feet of the mounts are angled slightly to might the curve of the PH roof.


The view from the FB Helm.

 

[dhays]

I am earlier in the process than you are. I have been acquiring the necessary pieces, wiring, etc. and am ready to begin the wiring installation. I am locating the Victron 100/50 in the aft engine room close to the battery bank (for temperature equivalency). I also have to run the Victron VE Direct cable from the controller back up to the pilot house to the Color Control GX and BMV712 monitor. At the same time I am going to add a Balmar Smart Gauge (another cable run from the battery bank up to the pilot house!) as another monitor to compliment the BMV712. I had one of these on my sailboat and it is very useful.

I am interested in your comment about the pilothouse roof curvature. One of the issues about this process is the need, or lack of, to mount panels on a flat plane. I know you have only one panel, so it does not apply to you, but I am mounting two panels. Would anyone care to opine about mounting them on a flat plane or not? It would be easy for me to mount them with a couple of degrees of difference between them. Not much really. Not more than 4-5 degrees total. Thoughts?

After TDunn made the suggestion (I think it was him?) I went with the Victron SmartSolar controller. It has built-in Bluetooth. I then can connect to it with either my iPad or my Android phone. The controller can be monitored and configured using the app. I decided to go this route because I didn’t have to run an additional wire for the VE Direct cable and didn’t have to buy and install a control for the charger controller. This saved me a bunch of money and time. Since I’m inherently lazy, I liked this option. Shortly, there will be a Victron Bluetooth “Smart Battery Sense” available. This is a temperature and voltage senses which is attached to the batter and will connect via Bluetooth to the Charge Controller. Two advantages to this for me, the first is that the controller will get accurate battery temp information, and secondly it uses that battery voltage information to regulate the charge. So if I get a .1v voltage drop from the controller to the battery, it won’t matter as much.

I am happy with how my mounts worked out. Since they are adjustable both in height and angle in one direction, I was able to adjust the fore-aft heights to ensure that the base of the mounts are sitting flush to the PH roof. The angle allowed them to adapt to the lateral curve of the PH roof. I think a slope to the panel is good to help with water drainage and keep the panel clean. My PH roof is sloped slightly forward and my mounts in the front are about 1/2” shorter than the aft mounts.

 

[dhays]

Here is a list of materials I used. Not that anyone is really interested, but it may give someone some ideas in the future.

From Platt Electric Supply. Ordered and picked up from their Tacoma location.
LG 365W NeON R 60cell solar panel. LGSLG365Q1CA5. $531.68 + tax.
25’ M4 12 AWG extension cord - CROM4M102BM4F25. $33.73 +tax
2 UniRac UNR304001C Serrated L-foot brackets, $5.88 +tax. ( I initially thought I was going to use these but went with the Sunmodo L-foot since it has a smooth based. The Sunmodo came in a pack of 10 so I used two of the UniRac L-foot to connect to the panel.)

From Compass Marine Services
Victron SmartSolar 100/30 Charge Controller. $232.45 +shipping
Scanstrut deck gland $25.49 +shipping

Amazon
Sunmodo K10066-001 L-foot kit (10 L-foot brackets). $27.45 +tax
50’ red and 50’ black 10 AWG tinned marine wire, $49.90 +tax
3M VHB tape, 2”x6’. $20.54 plus tax.

So, with tax and shipping that came out to about $1,015.

Misc materials.
3M 5200 Used to glue sets of two L-foot brackets back to back.
3M 4200 Sealed the edges of the L-foot brackets to protect the edge of the 3M tape. Also put in the unused screw hole in the base of the L-foot.
4 x 5/16 1” 316 SS Hex bolts, Nuts, washers, lock washers. These mounted the panel to the L-foot bracket.
4 x 3/8 1 1/2” 316 SS Hex bolts, washers, and Nylok nuts.
Tef -Gel (used on the SS hardware and aluminum L-feet as recommended by TF members.
Acetone (used to wipe down the roof of the PH where the 3M VHB tape was used.
Wire pulling lube
Anchor heat shrink crimp connectors

The stuff that I didn’t have and had to buy probably amounted to another $100-150. Stuff like that Tef-Gel is expensive!

So make it an even $1,200 to factor in gas and stuff I forgot.

 

[dhays]

I stopped by the boat this evening to see how the panel was doing. I grabbed the history of the past several days and grabbed a screen shot.


Here is my question. Each day when the sun comes up and the charge controller wakes up, it goes into Bulk charge. Then depending on the amount of sun (very little here the past few days) it takes a variable amount of time to get it up to the 14.7v. Then it spends a certain amount of time holding at 13.7 until the amps the batteries accept drops to 2 amps then it goes into float, holding the voltage at 13.4v.

So my question; is there problem for the batteries going into bulk charging mode on a daily basis even though they are only slightly below the float voltage in the morning?

BTW, the white section of each day is built, then absorb, and finally float.

 

[Rebel112r]

Dave. I think, it is better for them. Unless they are getting hot, which I doubt.
You should be able to set the controller voltages, in each of the charging stages.

 

[dhays]

Dave. I think, it is better for them. Unless they are getting hot, which I doubt.

You should be able to set the controller voltages, in each of the charging stages.

Yeah, the voltages are as I set them based on US Batteries charging recommendations for their batteries.

 

[BruceK]

FF is your man on charge voltage,hope he chimes in, he may have some thoughts on settings.
What is happening sounds sensible to me. Mine progress through Bulk/Absorb/Float,I think any real charging means "Bulk" is invoked.Probably your batts are now getting what they want and need.
All that black and chrome and reflective glass must look quite sinister to any boat you approach. Seems a great result for the expenditure,it works, and it looks good.

 

[dhays]

The test will come when we can get out on the boat this summer. The panel is hard to see from below. From the FB it does look like a large expanse of glass for sure.

 

[FF]

So my question; is there problem for the batteries going into bulk charging mode on a daily basis even though they are only slightly below the float voltage in the morning?"

The biggest hassle might be water use.

Higher charge voltages seem to eat more water.

If the boat is occupied , no big deal, if the boat is in storage you will need someone to top up the battset every so often.

Once a month should do if the batts are not too old.

 

[DavidM]

In my experience 13.7 absorption voltage will push very little current and I think that is what you are seeing. Raise it to 14.0 or better and you should charge faster with little water loss.

David

 

[diver dave]

While its not a problem for everyone , some solar systems make RFI on AM ad FM radios.

Its a PIA to not be able to use the fun radio, just because the batt needs a wee bit more juice.

A way of cutting off the solar charger can add to the delights of being onboard.

An excellent point, and a fair part of my world is to fix such things. Note that the CE marked Vitron should have passed EN55014 standard. Vitron claims to have passed this test regimen, consisting of measuring unwanted radio signals from 150kHz to 1000MHz. You have a right to ask and receive the test report.

Here is an example test report that I just happened to see posted, to the same standard (not a solar controller): https://www.carlsenfritzoe.no/mediabank/store/70822/238705.pdf

Page 11 shows the scan thru the AM broadcast range, page 15 thru the VHF marine band.

Buyer beware; there is a lot of non-compliant junk out there, and the solar controller world is no exception.
Also note; FCC mark is required in the US, not the CE mark. CE mark is much more comprehensive (and expensive) to earn. But, for the emissions part, they are similar.

 

[siestakey]

So my question; is there problem for the batteries going into bulk charging mode on a daily basis even though they are only slightly below the float voltage in the morning?"

The biggest hassle might be water use.

Higher charge voltages seem to eat more water.

If the boat is occupied , no big deal, if the boat is in storage you will need someone to top up the battset every so often.

Once a month should do if the batts are not too old.

I Do not have solar on my boat but have installed 3 over the past year for others the 2 larger ones we installed the flow right battery water system for that reason. One of them is still my dock neighbow and I can ask them how they like the system

 

[Atlantic Rich]

Have any of you had a problem with interference with FM radio since installing solar? I installed 400 watts and since then my radio reception is horrible. I have my panels on the hardtop of the flybridge and the wire come down a common conduit with the antenna wire. How have you dealt with this problem? Is there some sort of choke or filter that can be used to clear up the problem?

 

[Rebel112r]

Dave. Hey, we are pretty much in the same boat.! Panels are alike, same type of batts, my house bank 700 or so amps and live in same area. I have been checking and filling batts, once a year. They, as yet have required very little water to be added. The first year with panel, I checked more often, but added little water, hence my new schedule. It is on my to do list now. Dan

 

[foggysail]

Dave. Hey, we are pretty much in the same boat.! Panels are alike, same type of batts, my house bank 700 or so amps and live in same area. I have been checking and filling batts, once a year. They, as yet have required very little water to be added. The first year with panel, I checked more often, but added little water, hence my new schedule. It is on my to do list now. Dan

My experience is the same as yours. Since solar my batteries (8 GCs) also have little needs for added water. Now I check them at the season's end to top them off. Personally I have no need for an automatic watering system.

 

[twistedtree]

Have any of you had a problem with interference with FM radio since installing solar? I installed 400 watts and since then my radio reception is horrible. I have my panels on the hardtop of the flybridge and the wire come down a common conduit with the antenna wire. How have you dealt with this problem? Is there some sort of choke or filter that can be used to clear up the problem?

I'm curious who makes the charge controller that you are using, and whether is has an FCC cert number? I've always wondered the what extent some of the more off-brand devices are actually certified.

 

[diver dave]

Have any of you had a problem with interference with FM radio since installing solar? I installed 400 watts and since then my radio reception is horrible. I have my panels on the hardtop of the flybridge and the wire come down a common conduit with the antenna wire. How have you dealt with this problem? Is there some sort of choke or filter that can be used to clear up the problem?

yes; but a couple of questions first. What controller?
When you say FM radio, that is broadcast FM, 88 to 108MHz? How is VHF marine working? Like CH 16, etc.?

I specify chokes and do all kinds of EMC countermeasures at work.
PS: the panels cause no interference, it's the controller, but they can back feed the interference towards the panel. But, the fix will always be at the controller.

 

[diver dave]

I'm curious who makes the charge controller that you are using, and whether is has an FCC cert number? I've always wondered the what extent some of the more off-brand devices are actually certified.

I think you will find that "unintentional radiators", like a charge controller, don't get a "cert. number". The FCC, these days, doesn't do anymore product testing, directly. The rely on accredited labs. BUT, there should be test data available, that supports a manufacturers claim of Part15 FCC compliance.
Should be supplied on demand. NOT the claim, but the actual test data.

In the world of "intentional radiators", like transmitters on a boat, do get a FCC ID number.

Not to make this too easy to understand, there are some "intentional radiators", like garage door openers, wireless mics, and other very low power transmitters that don't get a FCC ID.

Now, the european world also wants to know if the product is affected by other devices, called immunity testing. FCC doesn't care about this, at least officially. The CE mark is supposed to inform the customer that the product has passed both emissions and immunity testing, done by an independent, and accredited lab. As a boater, you have a lot of electronic stuff in a fairly small space. The immunity piece in important.
I would normally not even consider buying a piece of boat electronic hardware that does not have the CE mark. Plus, if it is put on fraudulently, you can make a legit claim against the vendor.

 

[Atlantic Rich]

I'm curious who makes the charge controller that you are using, and whether is has an FCC cert number? I've always wondered the what extent some of the more off-brand devices are actually certified.

I'll have to check what controller it is. I'll have to check and see if it says CE. I did buy on ebay so probably not the best but met my requirements at the time. The charging has worked very well so far.

 

[Atlantic Rich]

Atlantic Prarie windows

I'm wondering if anyone has a good source for rubber/vinyl window glazing for Atlantics. I removed all my aluminum framed windows this winter and had them powder coated. They came out beautiful but I am having trouble finding a good vendor for the gasketing materials. I have found a good source from the mastic material used on the windows if anyone needs that.
Thanks for any help.

 

[dhays]

Thanks for all the replies. Just to clear up some confusion, my batteries are AGM. The battery manufacturer, US Batteries, is the one that specified the charging profile.

 

[cardude01]

Hey nice install! Like you I’m also inheriently lazy, but I think even I can do an install like yours. Maybe. Dunno.

Problem is I don’t think I have the room now that I’ve mounted the dinghy on the PH roof. I have room behind the dinghy, but I need that room when I crawl up there to strap it down.



My PH roof has a pretty good curve to it also so that complicates things I think. I wonder if I could hinge the solar panel so when I need to get up there I could flip it up to give me room. Plus that would help angle the panel towards the sun as it sets I suppose. Does this sound doable? For a lazy person?

 

[diver dave]

https://us.sunpower.com/flexible-solar-panels/

 

[dhays]

If I can do it, anyone can. I only was able to do it (and it is too early to tell if I was successful) because of the ideas and suggestions that I got from TF members, particularly Dan from Rogue who was my inspiration.

 

[dhays]

https://us.sunpower.com/flexible-solar-panels/

Yeah, those will conform to the curve of your roof and there are some that are reportedly rugged enough to walk on.

 

[dhays]

Here is a two week update. The first day I had the solar panel running, I had turned off the charger the day before. So when I finally got the panel running on the 7th, the battery was down a bit and there wasn’t much sun. The min voltage on the 7th was 12.8v and the max it got to after the panel trying to Bulk charge it was 14.08v. The next day I turned on the battery charger.

I turned off the charger again on the 14th. I have two 12v fans running continuously on the boat, but other than the bilge pumps, everything else was turned off.

Here are two images. The first is a graph of the total daily output from the solar panel. The white part of the bar is the amount of watt-hours the controller was putting out bulk charge. The light gray is the watt-hours in absorb mode, and the darker gray is the amount of power put out in float. If the bar is all white, it means the batteries never reached the Bulk voltage.

Below that is a graph of the average daily solar irradiance in Seattle in April. Unfortunately, the dates read in opposite directions but you can see a correlation between the amount of watts put out by the controller vs the irradiance for that day. Gig Harbor and Seattle are 30 miles apart so depending on where the holes are in the clouds, the amount of sun can be quite a bit different between the two. Today for example was surprisingly nice here, but not as good up in Seattle.

Today, I switched the refrigerator to 12v only and I’ll see how the solar can keep up.

 

[fryedaze]

Here is a two week update. The first day I had the solar panel running, I had turned off the charger the day before. So when I finally got the panel running on the 7th, the battery was down a bit and there wasn’t much sun. The min voltage on the 7th was 12.8v and the max it got to after the panel trying to Bulk charge it was 14.08v. The next day I turned on the battery charger.

I turned off the charger again on the 14th. I have two 12v fans running continuously on the boat, but other than the bilge pumps, everything else was turned off.

Here are two images. The first is a graph of the total daily output from the solar panel. The white part of the bar is the amount of watt-hours the controller was putting out bulk charge. The light gray is the watt-hours in absorb mode, and the darker gray is the amount of power put out in float. If the bar is all white, it means the batteries never reached the Bulk voltage.

Below that is a graph of the average daily solar irradiance in Seattle in April. Unfortunately, the dates read in opposite directions but you can see a correlation between the amount of watts put out by the controller vs the irradiance for that day. Gig Harbor and Seattle are 30 miles apart so depending on where the holes are in the clouds, the amount of sun can be quite a bit different between the two. Today for example was surprisingly nice here, but not as good up in Seattle.

Today, I switched the refrigerator to 12v only and I’ll see how the solar can keep up.
View attachment 75437
View attachment 75438

Do you have enough load to do a good test? If there isn't enough load the controller will back the current down. To test mine I have secured the charger and then drained about 200 amphrs out of a 940 amphr bank. That way "she's givin er all she's got captn"

 

[dhays]

Do you have enough load to do a good test? If there isn't enough load the controller will back the current down. To test mine I have secured the charger and then drained about 200 amphrs out of a 940 amphr bank. That way "she's givin er all she's got captn"

Yeah, you are right. However, I can only get to the boat on the weekends and I really don’t want to stress the batteries if I don’t have to. The last couple days I had the refrigerator going as well as a bunch of lights, pumps etc as I was doing some engine maintenance.

I’ll have a chance to really see how well it does when we can get out on the boat and spend some time at anchor.