Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-12-2014, 08:13 PM   #61
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by rochepoint View Post
Don't see a cord? I meant a cord with there outlet molded on it like there're 30 Amp cord.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 09:05 PM   #62
Guru
 
Edelweiss's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1976 Californian Tricabin LRC
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
appropriate standard as Mr Smith seems to suggest. For example, here is a locking plug system that is UL approved that isn't a twist lock: Spec Sheets

Why would UL approve this, and not the SmartPlug unless the SmartPlug fails to meet some UL standard?
That may be Mr. Smith's problem, his smartplug is like the example you show a 15 amp plug and not marine rated for 30 amp service.

I suspect the issue is UL wants to see a NEMA L5 - 30 or NEMA L5 -50 compliant connector to approve it for marine use. That would be a good question to ask Mr. Smith?
Attached Images
 
__________________

__________________
Larry B
Careful . . .I Have a Generator and I'm not afraid to use it !
Edelweiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 10:41 PM   #63
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,665
I would surmise that the issue is that a SmartPlug doesn't conform to either UL pin standards, NEMA wiring devices standards or some other aspect that speaks to polarization of the plug pins.

Edit: New info

According to Smart Plug VP Mike Miller, NFPA has told the company they want to see the already accepted NEMA plug configuration design employed. NEMA has told Smart Plug they would consider accepting the new design if the company would be willing to give up its patent rights for the design.

Sounds like they need a friend on the NEC Code Writing Committee. NEMA won't budge for a little guy like this.
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 11:00 PM   #64
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,487
Edelweiss, Northern Spy, that makes perfect sense. The standard they chose not to meet is the pin configuration. My concern remains the fact that they advertise a thermal cutoff capability which clearly does not work, and I wonder whether it isn't the cause of the problem in the first place.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 11:08 PM   #65
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,665
I'm intrigued about the thermal protection as well as I can't find any information on it, but not sure if it is a weak link. If there were resistance that created heat (over time) then it would probably work fine. This may have been an arc or a quick amp draw.
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 11:49 PM   #66
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
I'm intrigued about the thermal protection as well as I can't find any information on it, but not sure if it is a weak link. If there were resistance that created heat (over time) then it would probably work fine. This may have been an arc or a quick amp draw.
I can only go on their what they say on their website, which is that at the first sign of heating, the current is interrupted. I suppose the only way they could do that would be to cause the CB to trip. I have no idea how that would work, but it seems kind of sketchy to me, never mind apparently not working.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 12:57 AM   #67
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,442
I just read their website and although they allude to heat protection, they merely say the plug has better connectors and weather protection. Nowhere does it say the plug will interrupt power if it heats up. A change, perhaps? Maybe a new site?
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 01:04 AM   #68
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,665
It's in the inlet, not the plug.

Overheat Protection. The 30 Amp Inlet contains a trip thermostat which cuts power in the unlikely event of overheating. It’s set to trip at 200F (93C) - just before
wire insulation begins to soften - and restore the power once it has
cooled back down to a safe temperature of around 120F (49C).


here
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 01:51 AM   #69
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,442
Ok, thanks for showing that - the one part of the site I missed. Maybe it's past my bedtime...
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 05:25 AM   #70
Senior Member
 
City: Bayfield, WI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: All Night Long
Vessel Model: Regal 2765
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edelweiss View Post
The Insurance Company is concerned that the SmartPlug product is targeted at DIY sales, yet it has an inherent DIY flaw. When installed on an old cord by a boat owner, failure to follow the exact instructions will cause catastrophic failure and exposes the insurance Co. to greater risk. That said, one of these plugs was purportedly installed by an electrician??
The fact that they are an electrician makes them an expert in electrical principles, not following manufacturers instructions. In my experience it seems to make them less likely to since they "already know how".
BDofMSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 09:32 AM   #71
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
It's in the inlet, not the plug.

Overheat Protection. The 30 Amp Inlet contains a trip thermostat which cuts power in the unlikely event of overheating. Its set to trip at 200F (93C) - just before
wire insulation begins to soften - and restore the power once it has
cooled back down to a safe temperature of around 120F (49C).

here
So, after all this discussion it comes down to a simple high resistance connection, coupled with a high current draw.

Thats the exact same problem the standard NEMA connectors have.

Thats the same risk that ANY connector has.

I'm going to repeat myself here, but alas nobody is going to listen.

If you want to reduce the risk of a fire...

LIMIT YOUR LOADS. Just because its a 30 amp shore power setup does not mean that you can draw power up to where the breaker on the shore power pedestal trips.

You know what I did at my harbor?

I paid, out of my own pocket to have the harbor's electrical contractor install a 50 amp outlet at my slip last fall. Over $1300 I paid.

How did I get them to do it???

I wrote a e-mail to the harbormaster indicating that I was afraid of fire and wanted to take any steps I could to mitigate that risk. With an e-mail like that in hand, the harbormaster had little choice but to allow the installation.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 09:52 AM   #72
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
If you want to reduce the risk of a fire...
LIMIT YOUR LOADS. Just because its a 30 amp shore power setup does not mean that you can draw power up to where the breaker on the shore power pedestal trips. .
Great advice.

I read the Smart Plug website and testimonials for the first time. Interesting how they have used safety as a marketing tool, until their own house burned down anyway. I'm still puzzled as to the logic of a non sealed 6 finger owner jobbed after market connection that requires an E cord investment 3X the cost of a Marinco, or more. Plus requiring permission from the marina to redo their dock outlet on a one off basis.

Even a bigger hard sell than Rocna. Glad to see it brought Delfin back.
sunchaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 09:58 AM   #73
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
So, after all this discussion it comes down to a simple high resistance connection, coupled with a high current draw.

Thats the exact same problem the standard NEMA connectors have.

Thats the same risk that ANY connector has.

I'm going to repeat myself here, but alas nobody is going to listen.

If you want to reduce the risk of a fire...

LIMIT YOUR LOADS. Just because its a 30 amp shore power setup does not mean that you can draw power up to where the breaker on the shore power pedestal trips.

You know what I did at my harbor?

I paid, out of my own pocket to have the harbor's electrical contractor install a 50 amp outlet at my slip last fall. Over $1300 I paid.

How did I get them to do it???

I wrote a e-mail to the harbormaster indicating that I was afraid of fire and wanted to take any steps I could to mitigate that risk. With an e-mail like that in hand, the harbormaster had little choice but to allow the installation.
Absolutely...this summer I charred the prongs on my cords while running A/C ...they were cleaned and not full of salt....

And that's why I want to go to a 50 125/250 cord because I believe the whole setup connects more securely than 30A connectors...I rather underutilize a 50A (really 100A) service than overtask 30's.

And yes I could auto or manually load shed...but like I used to say to mommy "I don't wanna!!!"
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 10:45 AM   #74
Senior Member
 
funangler's Avatar
 
City: Erie PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 214
The advice in the last few post are the best. I'm moving to a new dock this year and I will wire it for 50 amp service with 30 amp breakers. I have burned a few 30 amp cords in the past by drawing to much to long.
funangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 11:02 AM   #75
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
One thing missing in this conversation is the condition of the dockside receptacle. All it takes is one instance of a poorly fitting male blade or pin to burn or pit the female contact and even a new plug may be the victim of a high resistance contact until that receptacle is replaced or repaired.

Make a habit of feeling the shore connection whenever you walk past it. If the plug is hot or unusually warm, find out why. If the internal wiring connections in your plug are tight, the wire is not hot but a prong is hot or the socket is warm tell the marina.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 11:10 AM   #76
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
One thing missing in this conversation is the condition of the dockside receptacle. All it takes is one instance of a poorly fitting male blade or pin to burn or pit the female contact and even a new plug may be the victim of a high resistance contact until that receptacle is replaced or repaired.

Make a habit of feeling the shore connection whenever you walk past it. If the plug is hot or unusually warm, find out why. If the internal wiring connections in your plug are tight, the wire is not hot but a prong is hot or the socket is warm tell the marina.
You mean that the sockets mounted in the cheap plastic that's broken and dangling might be a cause of concern? NO WAY....even funnier is try and get it fixed before I have to leave for the North again let alone before I leave the next day...

So far on my trip it seems like the 50A services in general are in better condition and there's a much more positive lock and connection than many 30's...that's a big part of me just throwing in the towel and paying the difference too...they just feel like less of a hazard (the ones that aren't dangling) even if I'm only dreaming...
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 11:16 AM   #77
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
So, after all this discussion it comes down to a simple high resistance connection, coupled with a high current draw.
Or, a high resistance connection, coupled with a low current draw through the circuitry of whatever device is supposed to sense heat and disconnect current in the SmartPlug. 1 amp will do it if the printed circuit is small enough.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 11:24 AM   #78
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Great advice.

I read the Smart Plug website and testimonials for the first time. Interesting how they have used safety as a marketing tool, until their own house burned down anyway. I'm still puzzled as to the logic of a non sealed 6 finger owner jobbed after market connection that requires an E cord investment 3X the cost of a Marinco, or more. Plus requiring permission from the marina to redo their dock outlet on a one off basis.

Even a bigger hard sell than Rocna. Glad to see it brought Delfin back.
It just seems like the SmartPlug is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I suppose shoving a plug into a socket would save me at least 5 seconds compared to screwing the watertight lock collar down on my Marinco and that could add up to a couple of minutes over the course of a year, but that just doesn't jump out in my mind as a compelling advantage. Add to that what I think is a silly use of electronics, i.e. using delicate and apparently unfused circuitry to indirectly interrupt 50 amps of current and you end up with, well, melt-downs. Especially questionable design when the circuitry doesn't frigging work, at least twice. In one marina area.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 12:55 PM   #79
Guru
 
LarryM's Avatar
 
City: League City, TX
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Pelago
Vessel Model: Wellcraft 3300 Coastal
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 842
For years I have used CorrosionX on electrical connections of all types. I apply to my AC power plugs and sockets a couple of times a year and they always seem to be clean and serviceable. I also use it on DC battery terminals and power distribution connections and again, they remain clean and corrosion free. Obviously, it has many other uses around a boat. You might want to give it a try.

Larry
LarryM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 01:05 PM   #80
Guru
 
tpbrady's Avatar
 
City: Anchorage/Wrangell
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Silver Bay
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42-002
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 505
Larry,

I'm with you on corrosion control. I am going to have my first permanent slip this year and will put corrosion control on electrical connections on the maintenance list. Dielectric compounds are pretty inexpensive protection. We use compounds like Corrosion X in underground cable TV vaults in Hawaii. There they water the grass with brackish water and the aluminum cases on the components corrode away in a couple of years without it. There's not much difference between those vaults and a dock.

Tom
__________________

tpbrady is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012