Marine trumpet horn replacement

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BellaDonna

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
68
Location
USA
Vessel Name
BELLADONNA
Vessel Make
34' MAINSHIP HARDTOP TRAWLER
Current horn destroyed from salt water leaking into horn. Any suggestions on a durable horn or how to protect horn interior from water blowing into interior.
Thanks.
 
Replace it with a Marinco or Seadog air horn. They will last a lot longer than the electric units since the compressor can be mounted out of the weather and the horns themselves have no electrical components in them.

If you want to spend more, Buell and other manufacturers sell impressive air horns.

But the Marinco/Seadog dual trumpet horns are very loud compared to their electric counterparts.
 

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We have a triple Buell powered by a CO2 tank. Loudest horn we have ever heard in five years on the water. Came with the boat.
 
BellaDonna said:
Current horn destroyed from salt water leaking into horn. Any suggestions on a durable horn or how to protect horn interior from water blowing into interior.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
My FIAMM dual trumpet air horn worked great, but being mounted horizontal, collected salt spray and was badly corroded after several summers. Got a new one, mounted it tilted down to forward, and no problems for many years afterward.
 
Install the horn so it tips down a bit That way it will be self draining .
 
A bit unrelated,


But would be cool to have a horn that sounded like a train whistle. Seems like the only ones are the huge air horns that are just too loud.



Anyone see other options? Not too loud, only for fun.
 
Thanks for all the great suggestions and information. Will try to install new horn facing downward. Certainly unfortunate that there is no water seal inside the trumpet. It was corroded from salt water blowing into the horn. Evidently, there's no way to seal it.

Thanks again friends,
Donna
 
I was literally just about to start a horn thread as my boat has never had one and I am installing a new stationary VHF with fog horn capability. But before I address my wants, I'd like to talk about a horn that sounds like a train.

Now I am a model railroader (did any of you MRing fans see the article on Rod Stewart in a British mag on him and his layout?) and railfan so I can appreciate someone wanting a horn to sound just like a train. And when I first read that wish here, I thought what a great idea. But you know those accidents that are a one in a million, kind of like the McCormick building in Chicago burning down in three hours when it was said it couldn't burn, all steel, concrete and glass.

There is a bridge in greater Vancouver right beside the Iron Memorial Bridge (also known as Second Narrow bridge), that bridge carries trains only from a busy area to and from the North Shore, mostly coal and grain shipments to cargo ships supplying the world. And it occurred to me that if there was a foggy condition and I decided to transit with forward sonar and radar on and with a horn sounding, I could conjecture an incident where another craft coming in the opposite direction not paying attention to my horn as they would know it was just a train crossing the bridge. Traffic under the bridge isn't heavy in the foggy season, late October to mid January, but there are a lot of liberty boats taking crew back and forth to their commercial ships in that location.

My boat isn't as large as most here which translated means my horn would be lower on my express cruiser than just about all trawlers. And when I am out and about, its quite normal to have a lot of spray coming up as I am usually transiting on a beam sea and wind on Georgia Strait. So I can understand the horn getting frequently drenched and I think the horn down orientation would only prolong the inevitable rusting and corrosion. So other than the long spiffy looking horns are there other more weather proof options.
 
rsn48 said:
There is a bridge in greater Vancouver right beside the Iron Memorial Bridge (also known as Second Narrow bridge), that bridge carries trains only from a busy area to and from the North Shore, mostly coal and grain shipments to cargo ships supplying the world. And it occurred to me that if there was a foggy condition and I decided to transit with forward sonar and radar on and with a horn sounding, I could conjecture an incident where another craft coming in the opposite direction not paying attention to my horn as they would know it was just a train crossing the bridge. Traffic under the bridge isn't heavy in the foggy season, late October to mid January, but there are a lot of liberty boats taking crew back and forth to their commercial ships in that location.

My boat isn't as large as most here which translated means my horn would be lower on my express cruiser than just about all trawlers. And when I am out and about, its quite normal to have a lot of spray coming up as I am usually transiting on a beam sea and wind on Georgia Strait. So I can understand the horn getting frequently drenched and I think the horn down orientation would only prolong the inevitable rusting and corrosion. So other than the long spiffy looking horns are there other more weather proof options.
Click to expand...


1 The trains on the 2nd Narrows CN RR Bridge don't have any level crossings nearby, so they never use their horns. No danger of yours being confused with theirs.

2 You can mount your horns inside the enclosure up top, where spray never threatens, and still be heard. After all, you will be putting out 120 + dB.
I have horns in just such a location and they are plenty loud.
 
I had the FIAMM, actually this model:

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|135|2290125|2290127&id=3042740

Great loud and fairly deep sound - two complementary frequencies. It uses a relay that the button activates. This connects the circuit with power to the little compressor. I did that circuit with #10 wire on one leg and #12 on the other (that's what I had available at the time). I think at least #12 would be needed.
 
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I think that will have to be upgraded then. Hmmm! Might be beyond my skill level.

Further to this, I did a quick calculation using the Anchor Circuit Wizard and came up with a 10 gauge requirement. I’m pretty sure the existing horn uses less than that.

Jim
 
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Is everybody aware that the COLREGs have an appendix discussing the required fundamental frequency of horns? International for vessels under 75 meters in length is 250-700 Hz while US inland it's 250 to 525 Hz?

As an aside, I think it was the USS Higbee, a destroyer, had a train steam whistle attached to her forward stack in place of her foghorn. She sounded that thing off once while alongside us at sea. Very impressive and fun.

The ineffective electrical horn (Is there even such a thing as an effective electric horn for a boat?) on this Pilot needed to be replaced, but I despaired of finding a way to pipe the air from a hidden compressor to the horn location on the cabin top in front of the helm, on the other side of the windshield. Eventually, I purchased a 17-dollar Chinese made horn with a little compressor and made an unobtrusive box painted the color of the cabin top to cover the compressor which was connected to the original horn leads. The first horn didn't last too long before its pot metal began to corrode through whatever chrome it had. So another 17 dollars and some sprayed on clear coat, and I am good - and LOUD.
 
COLREGs is what?
rgano said:
Is everybody aware that the COLREGs have an appendix discussing the required fundamental frequency of horns? International for vessels under 75 meters in length is 250-700 Hz while US inland it's 250 to 525 Hz?

As an aside, I think it was the USS Higbee, a destroyer, had a train steam whistle attached to her forward stack in place of her foghorn. She sounded that thing off once while alongside us at sea. Very impressive and fun.

The ineffective electrical horn (Is there even such a thing as an effective electric horn for a boat?) on this Pilot needed to be replaced, but I despaired of finding a way to pipe the air from a hidden compressor to the horn location on the cabin top in front of the helm, on the other side of the windshield. Eventually, I purchased a 17-dollar Chinese made horn with a little compressor and made an unobtrusive box painted the color of the cabin top to cover the compressor which was connected to the original horn leads. The first horn didn't last too long before its pot metal began to corrode through whatever chrome it had. So another 17 dollars and some sprayed on clear coat, and I am good - and LOUD.
Click to expand...
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction said:
COLREGs is what?
Click to expand...


International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972 (COLREGs), published by the International Maritime Organization (IMO). Member Countries may have some modifications.
 
I use a tractor trailer air horn. Tipped down about 10deg so it might drain. Inexpensive and has to tolerate salt on northern winter roadways, similar to a boat. It has been rock solid reliable for over 10yrs on the boat. Fed by a domestic pancake compressor in engine room.

One nice feature is the air valve can be "throttled" so you can have a light honk or a loud honk depending on the situation.
 
JDCAVE said:
International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972 (COLREGs), published by the International Maritime Organization (IMO). Member Countries may have some modifications.
Click to expand...

And if your boat is over 40 feet long, guess what? You are required to have a copy aboard.
 
You might want to look at Marinco and Sea Dog air horns.

Similar in price and quality to AFI.

My last Marinco Dual Trumpet Air Horns was still working like it was new at 18 years.

Replaced it because the chrome was not shiny any more and detracted from the new pilothouse roof.
 
rgano said:
And if your boat is over 40 feet long, guess what? You are required to have a copy aboard.
Click to expand...


Every cruising boat really should have the printed book or digital version onboard.

Tenders, dinghys, kayaks etc not necessary.

I was Coast Guard licensed, but other than the day I took the closed book Rules test, I don't remember all the rules. Important ones like crossing, passing, sounds, sure.

At 8 knots, I have plenty of time to look up unfamiliar things.

It comes in handy to settle rules arguments.
 
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The Col Regs are in Navigation Rules put out by the Coast Guard. The regulations on horns is in Annex III.

I sometimes wonder if rec boaters ever read the whole book. And yes, it is a required carry item and very handy to have near the helm for interpreting day shapes, lights, etc.
 
JDCAVE said:
International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972 (COLREGs), published by the International Maritime Organization (IMO). Member Countries may have some modifications.
Click to expand...

rgano said:
And if your boat is over 40 feet long, guess what? You are required to have a copy aboard.
Click to expand...

caltexflanc said:
The Col Regs are in Navigation Rules put out by the Coast Guard. The regulations on horns is in Annex III.

I sometimes wonder if rec boaters ever read the whole book. And yes, it is a required carry item and very handy to have near the helm for interpreting day shapes, lights, etc.
Click to expand...


It would appear there is a new version for this year.

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navRules/navrules.pdf

So I take it "Whistles" means Horn?
 
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Regarding Colregs (Rules of the road) compliance with annex III.

I think it important to have the proper whistle (horn) installed for required use as defined by PART D SOUND AND LIGHT SIGNALS. Your whistle is a device that conveys information about your size. I don't want a deep draft ship or big tow trying to find another big one when I need them to pay attention to me.

That said in my opinion I think it's OK to have an additional non compliant whistle like a train horn for fun. Just be sure to not use the fun horn when it might confuse things.

Kahlenberg makes it easy to hear the proper frequencies. Pick a horn that matches your boat length and listen.

—INTERNATIONAL—

ANNEX III -

Technical Details of Sound Signal Appliances

1. Whistles

(a) Frequencies and range of audibility

The fundamental frequency of the signal shall lie within the range 70-700

Hz. The range of audibility of the signal from a whistle shall be determined

by those frequencies, which may include the fundamental and/or one or

more higher frequencies, which lie within the range 180-700 Hz (+/- 1%) for

a vessel of 20 meters or more in length, or 180-2100Hz (+/- 1%) for a vessel

of less than 20 meters in length and which provide the sound pressure

levels specified in paragraph 1(c) below.

(b) Limits of fundamental frequencies

To ensure a wide variety of whistle characteristics, the fundamental

frequency of a whistle shall be between the following limits:

(i) 70-200 Hz, for a vessel 200 meters or more in length;

(ii) 130-350 Hz, for a vessel 75 meters but less than 200 meters in

length;

(iii) 250-700 Hz, for a vessel less than 75 meters in length.
 
Portage_Bay said:
Regarding Colregs (Rules of the road) compliance with annex III.

I think it important to have the proper whistle (horn) installed for required use as defined by PART D SOUND AND LIGHT SIGNALS. Your whistle is a device that conveys information about your size. I don't want a deep draft ship or big tow trying to find another big one when I need them to pay attention to me.

That said in my opinion I think it's OK to have an additional non compliant whistle like a train horn for fun. Just be sure to not use the fun horn when it might confuse things.

Kahlenberg makes it easy to hear the proper frequencies. Pick a horn that matches your boat length and listen.

—INTERNATIONAL—

ANNEX III -

Technical Details of Sound Signal Appliances

1. Whistles

(a) Frequencies and range of audibility

The fundamental frequency of the signal shall lie within the range 70-700

Hz. The range of audibility of the signal from a whistle shall be determined

by those frequencies, which may include the fundamental and/or one or

more higher frequencies, which lie within the range 180-700 Hz (+/- 1%) for

a vessel of 20 meters or more in length, or 180-2100Hz (+/- 1%) for a vessel

of less than 20 meters in length and which provide the sound pressure

levels specified in paragraph 1(c) below.

(b) Limits of fundamental frequencies

To ensure a wide variety of whistle characteristics, the fundamental

frequency of a whistle shall be between the following limits:

(i) 70-200 Hz, for a vessel 200 meters or more in length;

(ii) 130-350 Hz, for a vessel 75 meters but less than 200 meters in

length;

(iii) 250-700 Hz, for a vessel less than 75 meters in length.
Click to expand...

You are quoting International when most folks fall under INLAND. However the INLAND are not that far off in regard to the INTERNATIONAL rules.

JDCAVE said:
180-2100 hz is a very broad range of frequencies. I’m pretty sure most of us would be in compliance.

https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

Jim
Click to expand...

I contacted the factory for my Train Horns and they are in compliance or very close.

I have 3 horns with frequencies of 246 311 and 493 respectively.
 
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