Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-04-2018, 06:03 AM   #1
Member
 
City: Faversham
Country: United Kingdom
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 16
Mainship 350/390 Electrics

Hi All from Sunny Kent England

I am a second time Mainship owner, I used to have a Mainship 40 1981 with twin Perkins, Now I have a 1999 Mainship 350 with a single Caterpillar 3116

The boat is a 240 Volt, it has two lines in each 16 Amp and I just user one and parallel the two on the fuse control box,

This has been working really well for a few months (bought the boat in May 2018)

Now the parallel refuse to connect looks like something is shorting?

what shall I check for?

So I connect line 1 and all of line 2 fuses are off and when I parallel the parallel switch jumps off.

Thanks in advance

Tom
__________________
Advertisement

Mainshiptom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2018, 06:25 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Molly's Avatar
 
City: Punta Gorda
Country: USA
Vessel Name: La Bella Vita
Vessel Model: 2006 Mainship 34T
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 102
Check the fuse by the connection where you plug in on the transom. If it's only one leg, it could be that switch?
__________________

Molly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2018, 06:37 AM   #3
Member
 
City: Faversham
Country: United Kingdom
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 16
Thanks

Thank you for your reply but can you explain further?

I have checked both switches (fuses) just right of anchor should i Disable them or replace?
Mainshiptom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2018, 07:41 AM   #4
Member
 
City: Michigan
Country: US
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 20
Morning,
your parallel (1-2) switch may be bad, but i suspect one of the circuits in your line 2 section has an issue. If you turn off all of the circuit breakers on line two does the parallel switch still switch off? if so I suspect the switch, If not it is probably a circuit on line 2. With the two lines connected (parallel), turn on the line two circuit breakers one at a time to determine the circuit with the issue, hope this helps.
Noahstvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2018, 06:36 PM   #5
TF Site Team
 
City: Westerly, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,154
Moved thread from "General Discussion" to "Electrical and Electronics & Navigation". Though not really a Mainship 350 specific issue either.

The parallel switch is really only intended for use by the generator. You're essentially trying to power both sides of the panel with a single shore power cord. You can potentially overload the circuit.

A neighbor fried his shorecord doing this exact same thing earlier this year. He was running both AC's and the hot water heater and the fridge and his wife decided to use the stove. Had he been plugged into both circuits with dedicated cords that wouldn't have happened.
Shrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2018, 06:48 PM   #6
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,499
First, welcome aboard. We have 2 30 amp inlets. We can either use a Y on the 2 inlets if only one 30 amp plug is available. Or we can use the transfer switch on the power panel. It hooks both 30 amp legs together on the panel so you can use circuits on both legs when only plugged into one 30 amp plug. There should be a 30 amp breaker on each side of the panel so you cannot overload by using too much power, the 30 amp breaker would just trip.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 10:16 PM   #7
Veteran Member
 
City: St. Petersburg
Country: USA
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 72
Quote:
The boat is a 240 Volt, it has two lines in each 16 Amp and I just user one and parallel the two on the fuse control box,
Just to be sure we are on the same page, is your boat wired to a USA standard? If so, is it two 30A/125V (each inlet has hot, neutral and safety ground) inlets or a single 50A/250V (the inlet has hot #1, hot #2, neutral and safety ground inlet?

The typical European shore power is 16A/230V with hot, neutral and safety ground so there could be a mismatch between the shore power being provided and how the panelboard is wired.
__________________
Charlie Johnson
CharlieJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 05:59 AM   #8
Member
 
City: Faversham
Country: United Kingdom
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieJ View Post
Just to be sure we are on the same page, is your boat wired to a USA standard? If so, is it two 30A/125V (each inlet has hot, neutral and safety ground) inlets or a single 50A/250V (the inlet has hot #1, hot #2, neutral and safety ground inlet?

The typical European shore power is 16A/230V with hot, neutral and safety ground so there could be a mismatch between the shore power being provided and how the panelboard is wired.
The boat is European set up but it looks like some of the earth cables have been removed

this set up worked for a new month but now playing up and line two trips.

would it be easy to move appliances from line 2 to line one since I only use 16A at a time or up to 16A?
Mainshiptom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 08:55 AM   #9
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainshiptom View Post
The boat is European set up but it looks like some of the earth cables have been removed

this set up worked for a new month but now playing up and line two trips.

would it be easy to move appliances from line 2 to line one since I only use 16A at a time or up to 16A?

Just trying to think of ways to better diagnose your problem...

Maybe try using two 16A shorepower supply lines for a while, to see if the problem persists?

And/or try using a Y adapter to supply 16A from a single shorepower cord to both of your inlets, to see if the problem persists?

If you've got two 16A inlets, why would you not use two 16A shorepower cords to power everything, anyway?

Our previous boat had two 30A inlets and also a transfer switch on the panel to supply single 30A shorepower to applianeces normally powered through inlet #2. (Might have been the same transfer switch that supplied genset power to both side of the panel, too, but I forget.) Anyway, using only a single 30A and that transfer switch only worked for some of the appliances; I couldn't run everything all at once, that way. Had to use two 30A cords for that.

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 09:13 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
City: St. Petersburg
Country: USA
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 72
I believe you are incorrectly using some terms like "fuse control box", "fuses", and "parallel switch". A vessel of this vintage rarely uses fuses and I don't think you have a source selector switch (rotary). The selection of incoming shore power, generator or transfer (when only one source is available) is probably controlled by four double pole circuit breakers that are gated so that only certain breakers can be on (closed) at a time.

If the above is correct, it sounds like you have two shore power inlets, 16A/230V, that feed two load centers via two separate shore power double pole circuit breakers on your panelboard. It appears that you are trying to operate on one 16A/230V shore power cord and supply power to the second load center by turning on (closing) the transfer double pole circuit breaker and that the transfer circuit breaker is immediately tripping when you attempt to close it.

Before going further, have I restated what the configuration and the problem is correctly?
__________________
Charlie Johnson
CharlieJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 09:18 AM   #11
Member
 
City: Faversham
Country: United Kingdom
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieJ View Post
I believe you are incorrectly using some terms like "fuse control box", "fuses", and "parallel switch". A vessel of this vintage rarely uses fuses and I don't think you have a source selector switch (rotary). The selection of incoming shore power, generator or transfer (when only one source is available) is probably controlled by four double pole circuit breakers that are gated so that only certain breakers can be on (closed) at a time.

If the above is correct, it sounds like you have two shore power inlets, 16A/230V, that feed two load centers via two separate shore power double pole circuit breakers on your panelboard. It appears that you are trying to operate on one 16A/230V shore power cord and supply power to the second load center by turning on (closing) the transfer double pole circuit breaker and that the transfer circuit breaker is immediately tripping when you attempt to close it.

Before going further, have I restated what the configuration and the problem is correctly?
Yes you have but it used to work that way since I bought the boat in MAY?
Mainshiptom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 10:59 AM   #12
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainshiptom View Post
Yes you have but it used to work that way since I bought the boat in MAY?

Could be coincidental? Are you using one or two more appliances than you used in May?

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 11:11 AM   #13
Member
 
City: Faversham
Country: United Kingdom
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Could be coincidental? Are you using one or two more appliances than you used in May?

-Chris
Not using any appliances just trying to link line 1 to line 2

All trip fuses in off position
Mainshiptom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 01:21 PM   #14
Veteran Member
 
City: St. Petersburg
Country: USA
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 72
OK. How many branch circuit breakers in the load center fed by shore power line 2 are turned on (closed) when you try to transfer incoming shore power on line 1 to include the load center served by shore power 2?

If the answer is none, than the problem is with the transfer double pole circuit breaker or the wiring between the output of that circuit breaker and its connection with the line buss feeding the line side of all of the branch circuit breakers in load center #2 or with the wiring to the shore power #2 neutral buss.

If one of the branch circuit breakers is on when you are trying to make the transfer, than there is a problem in that branch circuit.

You mentioned disconnected grounds...has anybody been working on your panelboard between the time you bought the boat and the time that the problem started? If so then the possibilities for screwing something increase: misconnection of neutral to safety ground, bad or failed reverse polarity indicator; bad or failed RCD (if equipped); etc., etc.
__________________
Charlie Johnson
CharlieJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 01:51 PM   #15
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainshiptom View Post
Not using any appliances just trying to link line 1 to line 2

All trip fuses in off position
So none of the individual breakers serviced by inlet line 1 and inlet line 2 are in the ON position, and the transfer breaker trips immediately when you flip it to the "one shorepower cord services both 1 and 2 sides of your panel" position?

Have you tried connecting two shorepower lines (or tried a Y adapter) to see if all the circuits served by all the individual breakers work when you're connected that way?

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 03:02 PM   #16
TF Site Team
 
City: Westerly, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,154
Can you plug in two shore cords?

Does the transfer switch work with the generator?

The system is not really designed for what you are trying to do, which makes it senseless to attempt to troubleshoot it. You're going to potentially overload everything from the shorepwer post, the shore cable, to the connector on that boat to the wiring feeding the panel. None of that was designed to handle the load of both sides of the panel.

Only the generator was designed to handle those loads.
Shrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 03:34 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
danderer's Avatar
 
City: Newark, DE
Country: US
Vessel Name: Sojourner
Vessel Model: 2006 Mainship 34T
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
The system is not really designed for what you are trying to do, which makes it senseless to attempt to troubleshoot it. You're going to potentially overload everything from the shorepwer post, the shore cable, to the connector on that boat to the wiring feeding the panel. None of that was designed to handle the load of both sides of the panel.

Only the generator was designed to handle those loads.
I can't speak to a Euro-spec 350, but my US-spec 34T was clearly designed to be able to run the entire panel from a single 30A shorepower feed. Sure, you need to load-manage but there is no danger. There is a 30A breaker immediately adjacent to each of the inlets in the cockpit. The breaker there on inlet 1 will prevent you from drawing more than 30A from the pedestal or cord, no matter how much you try to overload things at the panel.

The panel has two switch lockouts enabling the following configurations:
  • Each 1/2 of the panel fed by its own shore power cord, or
  • The entire panel fed by the generator, or
  • The entire panel fed by a single shore power cord connected to inlet 1.

Maybe the 350 is different, but Mainship did build some models intended to be configured as the OP is attempting.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0826.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	93.4 KB
ID:	81707  
danderer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 04:01 PM   #18
Veteran Member
 
City: St. Petersburg
Country: USA
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 72
danderer #17: The photo of your panelboard matches what I surmised and posted in #10 and your bullet points reinforce #10.

Shrew #16: What danderer posted in #17 and I described as an interpretation of the OP's description is a very standard way of routing shore power from two inlets and the genset. The mechanical gates keep the operation safe as in not attempting to parallel to sources to feed a single load center.
__________________
Charlie Johnson
CharlieJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2018, 07:50 AM   #19
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,822
Our previous boat was like danderer's description. Just took some load management, although in FL during the day mostly we had to use two cords or the genset anyway, to support the AC if we wanted to power anything else substantial at the same time.

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2018, 09:26 AM   #20
Veteran Member
 
City: St. Petersburg
Country: USA
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 72
Where has the OP, Mainshiptom, gone? How did his troubleshooting turn out?
__________________

__________________
Charlie Johnson
CharlieJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012