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Old 05-17-2014, 11:45 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
... However, maybe I should add the rider, 'as long as your craft has good rear vision from down below'. ...
Yes!

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Old 05-17-2014, 11:45 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Billylll View Post
I hve never owned a vessel with a lower helm. It's always been on my most wanted option list. I now own a Gulfstar 36 dual helm trawler. I'm going to run it from both helms for 2 weeks. I would really like to remove the upper helm which would lower the boat's center of gravity. I need the real estate for a large solar charging system and I would like to have 2 solar water panels to create and circulate hot water. I sure could use the additional room above for my various KVH domes, antennas and NMEA2000 sensors. In addition it would give me a safe place to install the AIR-X wind turbine.
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Old 05-17-2014, 11:54 PM   #63
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Yes!

Mark - I ask this very respectfully... You really feel that is good visabiity? How can you see to port rear - through the dink? Over the rear within 20 +/- feet of transom?

You ever spent much time piloting from a flying bridge?? Experiencing the 360 degree visability and elevated sight capability at the water in proximity?
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Old 05-18-2014, 12:01 AM   #64
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Mark - I ask this very respectfully... You really feel that is good visabiity? How can you see to port rear - through the dink?
A couple of steps to port solves that problem. I'm usually going port to starboard to port, etcetera, pacing in the bridge.

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Old 05-18-2014, 12:13 AM   #65
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A couple of steps to port solves that problem. I'm usually going port to starboard to port, etcetera, pacing in the bridge.

Mark - You must be toooo nervous to pilot from bridge! Pacing back and forth is NOT needed on a bridge!!

Unless maybe the boat is some 20' beam or wider...
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Old 05-18-2014, 12:18 AM   #66
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Old pics, but you get the idea. Imagine a dorm fridge added to the aft port counter where the microwave is located.

Fwd Port:



Aft port:



Aft stbd:



Fwd Stbd:

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Old 05-18-2014, 12:21 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
Mark - You must be toooo nervous to pilot from bridge! Pacing back and forth is NOT needed on a bridge!!

Unless maybe the boat is some 20' beam or wider...
Not nervous. Need to keep blood flowing in the legs.
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Old 05-18-2014, 12:23 AM   #68
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Those are old photos, Al. Show us the real/current thing. (FlyWright, Carqimez Coot, and Pineapple Girl.) Thanks to Mahalo Moi.

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Old 05-18-2014, 12:47 AM   #69
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Found one...the rest of the view is unchanged.



Got an aft view from the Coot's helm?
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Old 05-18-2014, 12:56 AM   #70
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Al, tell us about the woodie to starboard.

And yes, a helm upper or lower or both is a good thing to have so long as it is affixed to a boat.
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Old 05-18-2014, 01:10 AM   #71
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Al, tell us about the woodie to starboard.

And yes, a helm upper or lower or both is a good thing to have so long as it is affixed to a boat.
Sorry, Tom. That boat was in the slip next to FlyWright when I first looked at FlyWright. I was smitten and never noticed that woodie until looking at the photos.
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Old 05-18-2014, 01:14 AM   #72
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Still giving us the oldies, aren't you Al?
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Old 05-18-2014, 01:18 AM   #73
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Many boats actually need a elevated helm station due to poor location of lower helm. Then there are people who just enjoy the high life. I have no axe to grind with the FB. Just saying a well designed helm station low down works well and does not have the negative effects of increased motion wind-age danger climbing up and down, and often not so beautiful. My personal boat which was designed with good 360 visibility from the low primary helm as a major build priority demonstrates this. Note the large windows(not meant as a long distance off shore boat). Since I single hand this 51 ft. LOA vessel a lot in tight marinas I have added a mobile remote docking system. I can now walk anywhere on the boat or dock and control all drive and thrust-er elements and I think that trumps docking from a FB especially single handed.
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Old 05-18-2014, 02:25 AM   #74
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Hi everyone,
I'm a newbie here and was following this thread.
There is a make of Motor Cruiser in the UK called Broom that doesn't fit a lower helm now at all to free up space in the saloon, other companies also offer it as an option.
We have experience of just a lower helm (Birchwood 33) which is good in rough water as the centre of gravity is a bit lower and in a communal area. Our other boat has both and if it's raining it's nice to pop down and helm from below but the fly bridge skipper tends to be more solo.
Different styles for different cruising areas seems to be the factor.
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Old 05-18-2014, 03:12 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Irish Rambler View Post
Hi everyone,
I'm a newbie here and was following this thread.
There is a make of Motor Cruiser in the UK called Broom that doesn't fit a lower helm now at all to free up space in the saloon, other companies also offer it as an option.
We have experience of just a lower helm (Birchwood 33) which is good in rough water as the centre of gravity is a bit lower and in a communal area. Our other boat has both and if it's raining it's nice to pop down and helm from below but the fly bridge skipper tends to be more solo.
Different styles for different cruising areas seems to be the factor.
Some boats sacrifice the lower helms to have more space, especially galley and dining. Also to have a sitting area up front with a great view forward. One of our parameters was must have a lower helm too so eliminated those boats early. But it's strictly a matter of preference and style of use.
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Old 05-18-2014, 09:44 AM   #76
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IMHO

1. If you don't have flying bridge then the question of having lower helm is irrelevant... duh!

2. I you do have a helm equipped flying bridge then the question of having a lower helm rests on two primary situations. A. Space taken (especially in smaller boats), and; B. Cost to install (in new or used boats).

There is currently a thread in Tollycraft forum reviewing costs to install lower helm in a mid 80’s 44' Tolly without one. A buyer’s decision apparently rests on capability of this factor. I'm sure that desire and its cost will be used as price negating tool. General agreement seems to rest between $10K to $20K depending on numerous factors of lower helm equipment levels and finished cabinet beauty, as well as out sourced labor or not.

Our 34' Fly bridge Tolly tri cabin's lower helm is well sequestered in forward salon, starboard corner. It uses little floor space and is a boat accoutrement I REALLY feel necessary for following reasons (great to place for hats and sunglasses too – lol):

I do bridge piloting 99.5%... But... I WANT a lower helm to utilize whenever desired or needed. I always start cold engines from lower helm so I can listen closely as they warm up (notice yellow key farbs in pict - they are always there when using boat). I also use lower helm whenever working on running engines/transmissions that rest under two easy access, huge, hinged hatches in salon sole. And, during that infrequent .05% of the time when weather becomes simply too abysmal to want to stay on bridge for piloting - the salon helm is simply great to stay warm and dry! Also, importantly, for immediately usable redundancy during special times that may require sudden safety measures!!!

Even though my boat’s flying bridge is very ample for piloting, and I love to do so 99.5% of the time, I feel it is virtually mandatory to have lower helm for reasons in paragraph just above.

Happy (enjoyable/safe/warm/comfortable) Piloting Daze! – Art

PS: BIG factor in this thread - - > Different Strokes for Different Folks, i.e. Whatever Makes You Happy!!
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Old 05-18-2014, 10:25 AM   #77
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No lower helm reduces the utility of the boat to only fair weather use.

We have winter cruised our 90/90 in LI Sound and its a delight to sit cozy and quiet as the snow falls outside.

No worry about the fellow up wind having a fly weight anchor , he is home with the TV and his boat is mouldering sitting in some boat yard.

And of course those thunderstorms in season are far more fun being observed thru a Kent rotating window than squinting thru goggles in the oxygen tent .

Boats are pretty expensive to use only a fraction of the year.
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Old 05-18-2014, 10:39 AM   #78
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Second that about winter cruising. Some of my most enjoyable trips involved winter running. No traffic. The colors are different. Often the wind is zero, rare on warmer days. Snow and ice on deck, but pilothouse is 75F via engine fed "bus heater".

It's amazing how much effect the "zero traffic" has on trip enjoyment.

Frozen dock lines are a particular PITA, though!!
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Old 05-18-2014, 10:45 AM   #79
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If I had a Devlin like ey I'd not want a FB either. But I have a DeFever that was specifically designed for a very nice FB to provide outdoor living space. We can easily sit 10 people on the FB when at anchor or the dock. The sight lines from our lower helm are more than adequate too.

In the PNW the higher one is the better the log viewing, not to mention avoiding ice bergs when in places like Glacier Bay and Tracey Arm. Back East I note lobster and crab pot buoys are more viewable too from a higher perch.

The best vessel for lower helm sight lines I ever been on are the Dashew FPBs. They now extol the virtues of the newly designed fly bridge setups. Point being, if you have well thought out at helms at both locations you are really in nirvana.

Or like Twistedtree's new boat - upper, lower, port, starboard and stern. Sounds like a porno movie!
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Old 05-18-2014, 11:32 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
Many boats actually need a elevated helm station due to poor location of lower helm. Then there are people who just enjoy the high life. I have no axe to grind with the FB. Just saying a well designed helm station low down works well and does not have the negative effects of increased motion wind-age danger climbing up and down, and often not so beautiful. My personal boat which was designed with good 360 visibility from the low primary helm as a major build priority demonstrates this. Note the large windows(not meant as a long distance off shore boat). Since I single hand this 51 ft. LOA vessel a lot in tight marinas I have added a mobile remote docking system. I can now walk anywhere on the boat or dock and control all drive and thrust-er elements and I think that trumps docking from a FB especially single handed.

You have a very nice boat!

We need to remember that every boat is a compromise. In your boats case the compromise (from the photos) is that you have less interior and exterior room for the overall length than a boat that utilizes some other designs.

So, while your boats design works for you, folks that made the choice to purchase a boat with more interior room, and places like a flying bridge don't have poorly designed boats, they have booats that made different compromises.

My boat for example is the same length as yours and has a pilothouse and a flying bridge. The pilothouse is a separate living area, another place to hang out if you will. My pilothouse is approx 12X8 or 96 square feet of living space. Living space your boat does not have.

The same for the flying bridge. Its more than a helm station. We have two large settees up there plus room for chaise lounges... We even have a sink and a referidgerator on the flying bridge. The area represents approx 13X25' or 325 square feet of living space. This is living space your boat doesn't have either.

Remember, I'm not knocking your boat. You have a great looking boat. I would just caution you that the rest of our boats do not represent poor design, and the person that designed your boat wasnt the only Naval Architect that got it right. All of our boats were designed by competent people that made design choices based on what they envisioned potential customers would want.
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