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Old 05-16-2014, 07:49 PM   #21
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Barpilot, this thread promises to be a spirited one, I like it

Now if we could only find a way to include anchor selection it would have the makings of an epic thread.
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:49 PM   #22
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Lower Helm Station

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Originally Posted by cpseudonym View Post
i'm in your camp mark. Is an upper helm area really necessary?

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Old 05-16-2014, 08:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Barpilot View Post
From the number of enclosures I see, I think those wishing to enjoy the "sightlines" would be in the minority.

I think I don't understand what you mean. We have a full enclosure... and it's probably comprised of about 24 square inches of Sunbrella... spread out over 10 panels around the bridge... so almost all of it is see-thru. Sightlines not particularly obscured...

Not a recommendation... or justification... just a question...

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Old 05-16-2014, 09:01 PM   #24
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Our last boat a Californian 35 I used the lower helm aloe especially when solo. Current boat a 49 Defever pilothouse we are 95% in the pilothouse both cold and warm weather. Fly bridge is nice for views and being able to see all your corners but inside helms are comfy and well protected.
Either way at least you are on the water.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
Barpilot, this thread promises to be a spirited one, I like it

Now if we could only find a way to include anchor selection it would have the makings of an epic thread.
I have a much better view of my Manson Supreme from the Flybridge.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:11 PM   #26
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View of the Bruce is good enough from my pilothouse:

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Old 05-16-2014, 09:14 PM   #27
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Rusty,
You mentioned your PNW weather in your last post but it says you live in CA just below your avatar. Are you up here or in CA.

And Rusty if you had a Claw you could hardly see it at all. That is the best anchor possible from a helmsman's point of view.

Having to look at the roll bar could be worth it for you as you've got what is probably the best anchor in the world.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:16 PM   #28
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I spend far more time driving from the pilothouse than I do from the flybridge. That is probably due to our often wet & rainy weather and lots of winter cruising, but for me the flybridge is primarily only used when docking/undocking or on those rare calm and sunny days in the PNW.

Nice Pilothouse!!!

We also operate our boat from the pilothouse most of the time. I've even gotten to where I'll dock from the pilothouse most of the time as it makes for much quicker access for line handling as we almost always are tow people or singlehanding.

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Old 05-16-2014, 09:17 PM   #29
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Nice Pilothouse!!!



We also operate our boat from the pilothouse most of the time. I've even gotten to where I'll dock from the pilothouse most of the time as it makes for much quicker access for line handling as we almost always are tow people or singlehanding.




Not to sidetrack anything, but to the far right do I spy a forward looking sonar?
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:21 PM   #30
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We would not purchase a boat that didn't have a lower helm. We aren't just warm weather boaters or an hour at a time. It's nice to be close to galley when on extended cruise and in rough weather or water.

Some of the sportfishing builders seem very anti lower helm. Hatteras certainly does. Then because they don't consider it essential, even though they offer it as an option, it's not especially well designed. The glass is very slanted, gets reflections and just not the best to see.

We love upper helms, but want the option to use a lower one as well.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:24 PM   #31
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Rusty,
You mentioned your PNW weather in your last post but it says you live in CA just below your avatar. Are you up here or in CA.

And Rusty if you had a Claw you could hardly see it at all. That is the best anchor possible from a helmsman's point of view.

Having to look at the roll bar could be worth it for you as you've got what is probably the best anchor in the world.
The boat lives in Seattle. We are currently exiled to California. Hoping to change that in the near future.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:27 PM   #32
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On Bay Pelican, a Krogen 42, we use the pilot house for all trips except when we are docking. We have no visibility to the stern from the pilot house so I use the upper helm when docking. Personal preference, but I enjoy the comfort and the wealth of equipment in the pilot house.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:43 PM   #33
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Most anchors aren't pleasing to look at and this guy dosn't need to lay eyes on it while he's on the boat. No bow pulpit, cluttery hand rails or anything else obstructs his view above his cap rail.

Many upper helms are employed because the visibility from the lower helm is so terribly bad. This guy may not be able to see the horizon from his lower helm, if he has one and I suspect he does. I've only seen this boat in northern BC waters and SE AK.

Thanks for the update Rusty .. full speed ahead.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:55 PM   #34
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Many upper helms are employed because the visibility from the lower helm is so terribly bad. .
Very true....but a reason for better design, not to forego lower helms. Hatteras is an example of visibility issues from lower helm due to long sloping windshield. Could easily have been otherwise.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:56 PM   #35
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Not with five opening windows and two doors in the pilothouse. Not after having exposure spending years in an open cockpit during sailing days. Not with immediate access to deck for handling docking lines (allowing self-embarking and disembarking). Not needing additional windage.
Well if your cruising grounds are the Delta and the Petaluma/Napa rivers and you enjoy looking at tules and levee bank rip rap all day, I suppose. Ditto a lot of the ICW. But up on a FB, there's a whole new world out there on the other side! Not to mention less glare off the water (very handy when cruising places like the Bahamas), better view of hazards, birds, etc etc.

To each his own, we are all out on the water for different reasons and different things give each of us enjoyment.
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:00 PM   #36
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Very true....but a reason for better design, not to forego lower helms. Hatteras is an example of visibility issues from lower helm due to long sloping windshield. Could easily have been otherwise.
What Hatteras are you talking about?!?! I have been on a lot of Hatts, old and new and your statement surprises me. "Surprises" is putting it mildly.
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:03 PM   #37
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Not to sidetrack anything, but to the far right do I spy a forward looking sonar?

There's a story behind that.

I loved my new wiz bang interphase forward looking sonar. I bought the one that does a vertical sweep, so I could find my way through narrow channels and see rocks in a potential anchorage.

It was a fantastic piece of equipment, doing everything it promised to do, once you figured it out.

I used it my first season with the boat, and when I went to fire it up the next season it worked when I dewinterized the boat but then quit working.

I tried to call the nice folks at interphase and was shocked to find out that Garmin had bought them out and then shut the doors. No tech support, no spare parts, nada. I was to say the least unhappy.

The symptom was that it appeared too be working but it would not see any return echos. Unhooking the transducer provided a transducer alarm so I know it at least recognized the transfucer.

So, I was stuck, on my own and not having a clear indication of what part was actually bad. I think its either the sonar engine or the trandsucer since the display just used a VGA cable.

When I hauled the boat last fall I checked out the transducer pretty closely and didnt see any place it had been impacted, so now I'm left with a unsupported unit I cannot find spares for.

I keep thinking I'll look on ebay and just buy a whole new unit, to have a spare, because I did like it. it just tweakked me that I could not get support for the unit. I dont use Garmin marine electronics anyway, but if I did I would not anymore.

So, I deinstalled the display, leaving the sonar engine and transducer in place, and in my anguish I bought a third Furuno navnet display to put in its place. I like Furuno. You call and a guy in america answers the phone and helps you out. You never get, "sorry" out of Furuno. I had a display go bad, out of warranty and Furuno charged a reasonable price to repair it, and since it required a software update, they updated all of my displays for free.
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Well if your cruising grounds are the Delta and the Petaluma/Napa rivers and you enjoy looking at tules and levee bank rip rap all day, I suppose. Ditto a lot of the ICW. But up on a FB, there's a whole new world out there on the other side! Not to mention less glare off the water (very handy when cruising places like the Bahamas), better view of hazards, birds, etc etc.

To each his own, we are all out on the water for different reasons and different things give each of us enjoyment.
That's very true...the view up top is the greatest! And on some faster boats with a lot of bow rise, the fwd visibility has got to be poor from the lower helm.

On my 34 Californian, I have good 340 degree visibility (my countertop fridge blocks the full circle) from the lower helm and all my foul weather equipment is there, too...radar, chartplotters, radios, foghorn controls, etc. But the FB is tough to beat on a nice day with the great view, the breeze and the sunshine!! It's nice to have choices.
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:14 PM   #39
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I have been reading the posts and I see others are getting the idea. A well designed pilot station makes a fly bridge an unnecessary extravagance. A poorly done primary helm station makes a fly bridge a necessity. Just want to throw in a little experience with rear view cameras. Hooking these cameras into your nav screen can go a long way to solve poor rear view,but not as good as 360 view. Another area of experience I have had is using a complete mobile remote to dock. Motor/motors + thruster/thrusters and walking anywhere on boat for view or to deal with lines or picking up a mooring. This last item is expensive but no more than the FB and more practical in many ways and much less wind age and cant be ugly .
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:25 PM   #40
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. . . . from the lower helm and all my foul weather equipment is there, too...radar, chartplotters, radios, foghorn controls, etc. But the FB is tough to beat on a nice day with the great view, the breeze and the sunshine!! It's nice to have choices.
Same here!! But on sunny days, under way, anchored or at the dock . . . nice to have the option to sit up there in the sun and yet you have the feeling of some privacy. Must be a Californian owners syndrome!!
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