Loran's a goner

[Keith]

Boy, didn't take them long to turn off the signal. I turned on my Loran yesterday and nothing.

 

[FF]

"and nothing".

That's just what we will have after North Korea or Iran takes out the GPS system.

Good recording deep range depth sounder and we can use contour nav .

MDF will work , after the commercials rebuild , IF your portable works.

Consolan may make a comeback , all it takes is a radio and the ability to count to 60.

 

[Baker]

How bout inertial????...

 

[Penta]

John - your response brings out a question - does anyone still use inertial nav. systems in commercial aircraft these days?
A friend used to work as an application engineer for a firm in the Orange County Airport area which manufactured, at the time, a state of art system that was being sold to commercial aircraft builders. I have not heard anything about "inertial" for a long time. Friend passed away and I and am curious what its status is today.
Have a great day guys, just got in from cutting my 1/2 acre lawn!! Yep, spring is here in the PNW
John Tones
Sidney. BC

 

[Baker]

Yes, Inertial reference systems are still the heart of airliner avionics. We have 3 on the B757/767. The B737 has 2. It would obviously be the last option as reversion takes place as it relates to navigation). We have 2 GPS's as well as about 5 VOR/DME recievers(I honestly don't know how many...I just know there are a lot). And then there are the IRS's. These are all just inputs into the flight management computer(FMC) and then the FMC uses it's own logic and interface to determine our position "reasonably". What you may not realize is that we use the IRS's for attitude and heading information. SO it really is the heart of our flight instruments as well as a navigational tool....this is likely the main reason for their survival. They are laser ringed gyros so very capable of providing information to the attitude indicator(They have a way more fancy name for it now....Attitude Direction Indicator...or something like that) as well as the heading indicator. Before GPS's were put into our aircraft(retrofitted to the 737s fairly recently), while flying over the Gulf of Mexico and when we went out of range for VOR/DME updating, the message "IRS NAV ONLY" would pop up....meaning thas all ya got.....and you would see the IRS's begin to drift. All of the oceanic airspace was predicated on IRS nav. They are just now beginning to tighten up the tolerances(due to more precise navigation) to better utilize the airspace....especially over the North Atlantic Tracks. We even have to purposely introduce "error" by "offsetting" our route by 1 or 2 miles. It is called "strategic lateral offset procedure"(SLOP). The reason for this is in the case there is a "vertical error"(or an event that causes an aircraft to be out of position) that you don't hit another aircraft that is perfectly in the same spot as you are...if that makes any sense.

Sorry bout that....prolly more than you wanted to know. And I could have gone on and on.... I sometimes forget I actually know ****!!!....

I am surprised Marin didn't jump all over this one....is he still around???

 

[Baker]

Back to boats and how this applies.... Avionics manufacturers have done an extremely good job of integrating many complex systems into one very simple interface....the FMC! I have always wondered why nobody has tackled this with boats. I think it would be relatively easy....ESPECIALLY with electronic diesels and all of the information they provide. I am talking auto-throttles....the whole deal. Where you could manage your boat and everything about it's performance thru one interface and see the results immediately on the "FMC".....things like when you are going to arrive and how much fuel you will arrive with. I know these are relatively simple calculations but it would be cool to be able to see how each power change effects your performance and if it will actually be worth it to burn the extra fuel. It can calculate current....it may suggest a reduced power setting to take advantage of a fair tide and save you a lot of fuel while not really compromising your ETA. How many of us do this?????...or do we just leave the power there and marvel at our excellent fortune???.....

Anyway, the possibilities are endless.

 

[FF]

They are laser ringed gyros so very capable of providing information to the attitude indicator.

Would be a good market to sell those to Airbust , perhaps they can stop falling out of the sky!

Their crappy Euro pitot tube has caused a lot of grief!

 

[Baker]

FF...It is not hardware that is a problem....it is a philosophical issue.

 

[FF]

".it is a philosophical issue."

Yes that's why the PHILOSOPHY crashed 2 aircraft during the Paris Air Show , for the world to see.

Damn factory test pilots thought they could fly , and the Autopilot thought different ,,

and killed them for their opinion.

 

[Baker]

The test pilots COULD fly. Only problem is that they forgot that they were operating a computer....and it was a garbage in/garbage out scenario.

 

[Reefhunter]

FF wrote:

"and nothing".

That's just what we will have after North Korea or Iran takes out the GPS system.Good recording deep range depth sounder and we can use contour nav .MDF will work , after the commercials rebuild , IF your portable works.
Consolan may make a comeback , all it takes is a radio and the ability to count to 60.

Back to celestial navigation, as if we really depended on electronics.

*

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[FF]

Celestial navigation required operator input and skills ,accurate time , books and a visible horizon .

Consolan only hopes the navigator can count to 60 and has a chart.

 

[Marin]

Loran is working just fine in the PNW. Had it on over our four day cruise over the weekend. However the PNW chain stations are all in Canada.

 

[Baker]

Welcome back Marin....I was worried about ya!!!