Looking for an autopilot

[Fotoman]

Need autopilot advice

Next fall I will be doing a complete revamp of my steering system (I have a leak in one of the original copper lines - didn't want to mess with it since it looks very brittle and will probably break as soons as I touch it). Since I will also do a complete makeover of the cockpit bilge (change old water tanks, clean and paint), I'm thinking this is the perfect opportunity to install an autopilot.

I'd like to get suggestions from you on brands and models but also some education on the various components I will need since I don't know much about autopilots and how they work. I have two nav stations so I'm guessing I will need a second control device for the flybridge. One of the (maybe silly) questions I have is: can I interface the autopilot with my GPS (Garmin) and program waypoints for the AP to "follow"?

So what is your experience with autopilots? Any features I should look for/avoid? Is a remote control a nice thing to have or just an expensive gadget that gets lost or broken?

 

[skipperdude]

Garmin makes an auto pilot.

SD

 

[psneeld]

Simrad and Raymarine have lead the pack for a long time. You can mix and match components...but you have to understand what you are doing.

Raymarine has offered packs for a decade or more...you might try their website for info.

There have been a lot of advancements in autopilots in the last decade but the basic hold a course and go to a wayoint remain pretty well the same for the new and old timer systems so I would go with a name that has good experience and customer service. After that a good install is next most important.

 

[Larry M]

We installed a Simrad AP24 with a control head at both stations 3 years ago. It's been great and I would buy another. It replaced an old Robertson so the install was easy. Simrad was easy to work with on the specifications. I was out of the country so I dealt direct via email and then we purchased the system on the internet.

Most of the new autopilots are NMEA 2000 and each manufacturer uses different cabling/connectors. You may have some compatibility issues with NMEA 183 also. Simrad does sells cables to interface with NMEA 183 to NMEA 2000 for about $100/input. As usual if 2 pieces of electronics do not "talk" to each other, the manufacturer's all say it's the other guy. We do not use all the capabilities that the AP24 has to offer and there are alot. On Hobo the autopilot is pretty much a stand alone system.

 

[meridian]

For a look at a basic inexpensive unit look at the Si-Tex SP70/80. I'm installing one as we speak.

 

[Fotoman]

Thanks for the input. I took a good look at Raymarine's site and I found a lot of useful info on the components required. Very interesting products.

Meridian: I looked at Si-Tex but it looks like they only sell control units, no pump. How did you make the rest of you system?

 

[Capn Chuck]

I just installed a Garmin GHP 10. The installation was easy and the unit is very user friendly. It is N2K but connected right up to my NMEA 0183 plotter for GPS input. Chuck

 

[Vyndance]

If you walk the commercial docks it is not very likely you will find any of the popular brands listed above. What you will find is ComNav and Wil Ham. Last week from San Pedro Point on Santa Cruz Island to the entrance at Ventura I arrived 4 feet off course. 26 miles, 5 foot following seas and 20 knots of wind. 4 feet xte. ComNav 1420.

 

[psneeld]

If you walk the commercial docks it is not very likely you will find any of the popular brands listed above. What you will find is ComNav and Wil Ham. Last week from San Pedro Point on Santa Cruz Island to the entrance at Ventura I arrived 4 feet off course. 26 miles, 5 foot following seas and 20 knots of wind. 4 feet xte. ComNav 1420.

Maybe where you are but Simrad/Robertson has been extrodinarily popular on the east Coast with commercials and Raymarine has been catching up. The old timers liked Wood Freeman...but they are being phased out as they become more and more ancient.

The maine electronic firm I worked for a decade ago stopped installing Comnav for lack of parts/support and while I know they have a strong following, I never even heard of or have seen a Wil Ham autopilot...even after thousands of vessels run, boarded, maintained.

 

[jleonard]

Here is another vote for the Sitex SP-70. I installed one 3 years ago and they sell the pump. The entire kit (with the pump) was something like $1800, and that was with the higher volume pump.
It does everything I could ask including navigating with signal from the Garmin gps...takes me right on the money.

 

[psneeld]

In all fairness...they all will hit a buoy if coupled up correctly. So it boils down to reliability and customer support.

 

[Vyndance]

You need to back up the ComNav statement. There is nothing you can't have tomorrow. You have always been able to talk to the engineers. Now or 10 years ago. What is the firms name and phone number I'll call and ask. Also Simrad does make one unit for a large boat with no rudder feed back. No thanks. Which Raymarine unit are you going to use on a 90 ft seiner?

I'm sure the OP does not need the same AP that is used on a 90 ft seiner or a 300 ft superyacht but it is nice to have a unit from companies that do build for those vessels.

 

[psneeld]

You need to back up the ComNav statement. There is nothing you can't have tomorrow. You have always been able to talk to the engineers. Now or 10 years ago. What is the firms name and phone number I'll call and ask. Also Simrad does make one unit for a large boat with no rudder feed back. No thanks. Which Raymarine unit are you going to use on a 90 ft seiner?

I'm sure the OP does not need the same AP that is used on a 90 ft seiner or a 300 ft superyacht but it is nice to have a unit from companies that do build for those vessels.

OK...90 foot seiners.....yeah we are talking the same thing...

And NO it's not nice to have something from a company whose support goes in one direction and the little boat stuff is barely on the table...we have all seen that...not saying that's true with WH...but like I said...never have I seen one on a rec boat...then again I'm not on many 300 footers either.

Simarad ruled the roost on small boat autos for many years, Raymarine caught up pretty quick..everything else in my world is a distant third in tems of numbers (won't comment on quality as that's almost impossible to defend).

 

[O C Diver]

Generally the big name companies make the controls, brain boxes, sometimes the compasses and rudder feed backs. The pumps and linear drives are made by other vendors. So what you are really buying from Simrad, Furno, Raymarine, etc. are the brain box and control displays. Several good companies out there. When I buy electronics, I generally choose a company with a good track record making that product. Second, I buy a model that has been out for a couple of years with good acceptance and no design / production problems.

Have had my Simrad for 10 years (3K to 4K hours and 30K to 40K miles). It's interfaced to my Navnet and works flawlessly.

Ted

 

[ksanders]

Next fall I will be doing a complete revamp of my steering system (I have a leak in one of the original copper lines - didn't want to mess with it since it looks very brittle and will probably break as soons as I touch it). Since I will also do a complete makeover of the cockpit bilge (change old water tanks, clean and paint), I'm thinking this is the perfect opportunity to install an autopilot.

I'd like to get suggestions from you on brands and models but also some education on the various components I will need since I don't know much about autopilots and how they work. I have two nav stations so I'm guessing I will need a second control device for the flybridge. One of the (maybe silly) questions I have is: can I interface the autopilot with my GPS (Garmin) and program waypoints for the AP to "follow"?

So what is your experience with autopilots? Any features I should look for/avoid? Is a remote control a nice thing to have or just an expensive gadget that gets lost or broken?

Most of the autopilots will take a NMEA 0183 signal from your chart plotter. If you follow a route on your plotter it sends the specific sentences for the autopilot to follow your route (VS a magnetic heading).

I've used this feature quite a bit, and am actually happier using a magnetic heading most of the time.

The reason is that when following a route, the the autopilot (in my case a Simrad AP24) uses XTE Cross Track Error as its steering input. When the XTE indicates you are off course then the autopilot corrects to close the XTE.

This works great in smooth seas, but when you get almost any non head on or following sea conditions, the wave will push the bow over, making you go off course. The autopilot senses its off course using the XTE and steers to get back on the original route.

If you look at your track you'll see "weaving" back and forth accross the route.

Changing to magnetic mode corrects this. The autopilot reacts instantly to a change in bearing, putting you back on course, instead of waiting for you to actually get off course when in route mode.

 

[FF]

The commercial grade like our Robertson is old and is a stand alone .

No interface , just an eyeball for a compass heading and off you go.

For us the commercial reliability is worth the loss of a chart plotter that will con the boat into her slip.

 

[psneeld]

While it's never perfect...autos can be adjusted to follow the course more tightly. Alost as tightly as just following a heading because that's all it's really doing anyway...it's just correcting back to maintain a head instead of a specific inputted course.

The reliability in autopilots generally isn't the course computer...it's usually the pump or the"interface", "junction box", or the rudder feedback that's an issue. Having a slightly more sophisticated microchip to follow a chartplotter shouldn't scare anyone off.

Both course following and track following are useful tools....a good skipper should be comfortable in being to use both if they are available.

 

[Fotoman]

Thanks a lot guys. Once again I got a lot of useful info from you. I read a few instruction manuals last night and was able to get a good understanding of autopilots and the way they work. They Sitex would probaly be a good choice for me (good bang for the bucks). And since I will not keep this boat for many more years, it would probably be the right choice. I only use the boat for short weekend trips and for my summer vacation and I am often short handed or with crew that is unfamiliar with steering a boat.

 

[meridian]

If you are looking on the web for the Si-tex they changed their ID's. The old SP-80-R or SP-70-R is now an SP-70-3 or 80-3. Exact same parts. The R designated a rotory feedback unit. Also the control head for the SP-80 is only set up for an in-dash install. You would need to make your own bracket if you want to make a top mount. Other than that, it is a complete system although their manuals leave a lot to be desired.

I hope to complete my install this weekend.

 

[Fotoman]

If you are looking on the web for the Si-tex they changed their ID's. The old SP-80-R or SP-70-R is now an SP-70-3 or 80-3. Exact same parts. The R designated a rotory feedback unit. Also the control head for the SP-80 is only set up for an in-dash install. You would need to make your own bracket if you want to make a top mount. Other than that, it is a complete system although their manuals leave a lot to be desired.

I hope to complete my install this weekend.

Keep us posted on how it turns out.

 

[jleonard]

Other than that, it is a complete system although their manuals leave a lot to be desired.

I hope to complete my install this weekend.

Gee, I thought the manual was fine. Regardless, good luck with the install and checkout. You will enjoy having an autopilot no matter what the brand. They really take the strain off on a cruise.

 

[Underway]

Our W-H (Will Ham) unit is adjustable for sea state, speed and rudder sensitivity. Have yet to find a situation where it wasn't up to the task. Bulltproof. Great service from this small Bainbridge manufacturer.

 

[FF]

IF I could find a new one the old Wood Freeman would be first choice.

Almost all mechanical, so it can be owner repaired ,as needed.

Flying strange black boxes back and forth from somewhere is not my idea of FUN cruising!

 

[meridian]

I finished my Si-Tex 70/80 install this last Friday. I put about 15 hours into the entire project including planning, ordering, chasing around for misc parts, etc. It tracks like it's on rails. So far it has been well worth the effort. After the amount of time spent fishing cables and crawling in spaces that I don't fit in, I understand why labor for electronic install seems high.

 

[psneeld]

I finished my Si-Tex 70/80 install this last Friday. I put about 15 hours into the entire project including planning, ordering, chasing around for misc parts, etc. It tracks like it's on rails. So far it has been well worth the effort. After the amount of time spent fishing cables and crawling in spaces that I don't fit in, I understand why labor for electronic install seems high.

Add in 5 hours travel and setup/breakdown/cleanup and you have what I used to estimate for the average boat. Tough work sometimes!

 

[Marin]

Is a remote control a nice thing to have or just an expensive gadget that gets lost or broken?

We removed the autopilot from our boat within days of acquiring the boat in 1998 and have not replaced it so I can't offer any pros or cons on autopilot brands.

But I have had a fair amount of experience with a remote control. This was back in the 70s in Hawaii so obviously the technology has changed dramatically since then. But in terms of using a remote, it was very, very handy. Now we were fishing, usually with just two people aboard, so it was great to be able to control the boat (28' Uniflite sportfisherman) from the cockpit where we were dealing with the fish, some of them pretty big.

Back then, of course, the remotes were hard-wired. So we had this long, thin cable to deal with when we wanted to control the boat from somewhere other than the helm. Today I assume autopilot remotes can be wireless, to that would be even better.

But even with the cable, a remote would be a benefit in my opinion, even on a cruising boat as well as on a fishing boat. You might not need it very often but I can imagine scenarios when you might want to be able to steer the boat from somewhere other than one of the helm stations.

If you added power and transmission controls to the remote as well, then you'd really have something. But I imagine doing that would cost some major dollars.

But if we were adding an autopilot to our GB today, we would include a remote control, either hard-wire or wireless.

 

[Fotoman]

Marin, why don't you have an autopilot? Looks like you use your boat a lot.

 

[meridian]

I have my SP-70 remote on the flybridge so i can use it from either seat. It is held in place with a clip.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

We have a wired remote and it is very handy. If you have a wireless one, you just have to be diligent about always putting it down in the same place so you don't lose it.

 

[Marin]

Marin, why don't you have an autopilot? Looks like you use your boat a lot.

We both prefer hand-steering the boat. I don't deny the advantages of an autopilot at all and I readily agree that there are times when they can be very nice to have. But we simply enjoy driving the boat ourselves as opposed to letting a circuit board do it.

The longest runs we have made in a single day have been about eight hours, although a more typical day's run is two and a half to five hours. But we never get tired driving by hand and since we're both equally good at it (actually my wife is probably better because she sees things I sometimes don't), we can spell each other periodically.

Also, although this is not the reason we removed the autopilot and never replaced it, there can be a lot of stuff in the water up here---- logs, branches. big chunks of wood, eelgrass mats (one of them stopped the 90hp outboard on our Arima day before yesterday), kelp mats, crab and shrimp pot floats, etc.--- and while one can steer around this stuff with an autopilot control if you see it soon enough, we both feel we can react faster by hand. Particularly if we have to use the so-called "Titanic maneuver" to avoid it at the last instant.

But mainly we just like driving the boat and having the "feel" of it in our hands the whole time. It's part of the enjoyment we get out of having one.