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Old 04-03-2013, 09:31 AM   #1
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Lithium Ion Batteries

What are y'alls thoughts on these batts:

Lithium Marine Batteries

Pros: Lightweight, 5 yr. warranty, no maintenance,
Cons: Expensive

Mike
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:36 AM   #2
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For starting and house batteries, I'm an acid guy all the way:
  • Very long lived if treated right
  • Much cheaper.
  • Light doesn't matter in a slow trawler. Ballast is good!
  • Can buy them anywhere if you are in a pinch
  • Compatible with all modern charger/inverters
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:12 PM   #3
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Fire Hazard if overcharge

Cars,planes,boats.......big NO
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:43 PM   #4
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You need to know more about the specific battery chemistry.

Li-Ion/Polymer (LiCoO2) have a much higher risk of fire.
Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4, LFE) Have a much lower risk.
Prismatic
LiFePO4 Probably the safest of the Lithium batteries.

Do your homework first. Also check with your insurance company to see if there are any restrictions on them.

Might also want to check the price before getting to interested, 12 volt 200 AH battery $2,299.99.

Ted
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:40 PM   #5
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What would prevent LiFePO4 batteries from working with an inverter/charger as suggested in post #2, and why wouldn't the overcharge protection supplied by an inverter/charger prevent overcharging/fires as suggested in post #3?
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:48 PM   #6
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Lithium Ion batteries are in everything on the planet these days. All our professional video gear--- cameras, lights, audio, etc.--- is powered with them, and fairly large ones at that. They're fantastic. Lightweight, charge fast, no charging memory, and put out way more power than the old NiCads.

We've taken these things all over the world for years and never had a problem with them at all. They need to be designed correctly, they need to be made correctly, and they need to be controlled correctly but this notion that there's some sort of evil bugaboo about Lithium Ion batteries is uninformed at best and ignorant at worst. If there was a cost and performance advantage to having them in our boat we wouldn't even blink at the notion of installing them.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:42 PM   #7
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The side debate about lithium ion batteries and Boeing has been moved intact to this thread already well underway about the subject.

FAA grounds 787
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:15 AM   #8
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The LI batt advantage , like the AGM advantage is in its rapid charge rate acceptance.

IF you need batts you can hammer full with huge amps , you may be able to charge the house in 15 min, and live 4 days as Calder claims he does.

Just how many thousands you are willing to pay for the "sound of silence " is up to you.

Quiet is grand but for my bucks a propane fridge & range , Dickinson diesel heat and LED bulbs with an 85W solar takes care of quiet at anchor, for days or weeks as required.

The 120V blender , microwave and coffee grinder are handled with a chop chop cheapo inverter (1500W under $200) for their 3 min a day.

The house batt bank is there to serve your needs , LI seldom serves better as its "advantages" are seldom useful, but always expensive .
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:37 AM   #9
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That's true. Most LiPos charge at 2C and even discharge at rates of 15C-20C without significant heat growth. Some are rated upwards of 90C burst.

For example, a 200AH Lipo can supply 200A for an hour... or up to 90 times that in a surge! It's amazing technology.

(C = Capacity)
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:57 PM   #10
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A 100 AH 12 volt Sears Die Hard Marine Platinum battery costs about $259. The equivalent in the link is $1,299.99. That's a pretty big negative in my book.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:12 PM   #11
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A 100 AH 12 volt Sears Die Hard Marine Platinum battery costs about $259. The equivalent in the link is $1,299.99. That's a pretty big negative in my book.
Then again, if what they say on their site is correct, it'll last 10 times longer and be 50% less over time. (No affiliations or agenda here...just looking on as an interested newcomer).
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:46 PM   #12
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Then again, if what they say on their site is correct, it'll last 10 times longer and be 50% less over time. (No affiliations or agenda here...just looking on as an interested newcomer).
For me, that would be $6499.95 for five batteries. I may not live long enough to come out ahead. And if you sell the boat, buyers may not be willing to pay the extra for the premium batteries..
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:47 PM   #13
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If the $259 battery in Ron's example will last six years are you saying the LI battery will last sixty years?
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:51 PM   #14
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Hey, Craig; I'm not saying, just repeating what they wrote.

Sorry Ron...guess I'm not close enough to "the end" to start budgeting that way
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:09 PM   #15
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Hey, Craig; I'm not saying, just repeating what they wrote.

Sorry Ron...guess I'm not close enough to "the end" to start budgeting that way
Consider what I said about resale. Just like with a house, it's possible do overdo some things.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:23 PM   #16
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Consider what I said about resale. Just like with a house, it's possible do overdo some things.
Resale? Nope, no way. I'm a one boat kinda guy! Been using the same camera, lenses, tripod, and spot meter I bought 30 years ago and never needed to buy more gear. One girlfriend/common law wife for 28 years too. Man, I'm on a roll
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:25 PM   #17
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How much do I think lithium ion batteries would increase the value of a boat on resale? Probably zero. They may be looked at as a nice to have item. Like the additions I am putting on Moonstruck, they will not increase the value one cent. The buyer is buying a boat not batteries. Very few would be savvy enough to even appreciate the batteries.

I buy stuff to use, and maintain what I have. It is a depreciating asset. The value is in the use.

Value to a buyer is based entirely on how they perceive it. In my business if we put a $400 cost item in a home, and it is perceived to be worth $800 I just made $400. If it cost $2000, and it is perceived to be worth $1000 I just lost $1000. Cost has no relationship to market.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:47 PM   #18
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How do you charge them?? My chargers only have settings for wet/Gel/AGM!!
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:51 PM   #19
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They take specialized chargers. They have an entirely different charge curve than lead acid. Let them drop too low and you lose them forever. They also need to be balanced occasionally.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:00 AM   #20
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How much do I think lithium ion batteries would increase the value of a boat on resale? Probably zero

About the same return for fancy electronics , which are 2 generations behind when you open the box to install them.

Folks will happily pay for useful things , central heat , good investment ,

Wi Fi readout of the black tank contents to an I phone , not so much.
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