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Old 04-21-2014, 01:58 PM   #21
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:17 PM   #22
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Setting the interference issues aside, how would you compare the performance of the open array vs the 3G array when run individually?
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:35 PM   #23
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Setting the interference issues aside, how would you compare the performance of the open array vs the 3G array when run individually?

For close in discrimination there is no comparison, that's where broadband shines. I could range all the way down to 200ft with the broadband where the regular open array only goes down to 1/4 mile.Click image for larger version

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Old 04-21-2014, 08:09 PM   #24
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Oliver

I think your setup is ideal.

If you want excellent close in range resolution you have the broadband radar

If you want longer ranges you have a traditional radar with the power to transmit through things like rain and fog over longer distances.

For someone choosing a one radar solution it becomes an opinion matter as to what best suits that persons needs.

Thanks for showing them side by side.
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:23 PM   #25
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Oliver



I think your setup is ideal.



If you want excellent close in range resolution you have the broadband radar



If you want longer ranges you have a traditional radar with the power to transmit through things like rain and fog over longer distances.



For someone choosing a one radar solution it becomes an opinion matter as to what best suits that persons needs.



Thanks for showing them side by side.


No problem, glad I could help.

I find the the broadband best for coming into inlets and harbors at night and the traditional for tracking targets and weather farther out.


I could also see having 3G/4G helpful on the ICW, rather then traditional radar. Especially at night.


Here's a pic of some weather we encountered a few days ago.
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:25 PM   #26
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No problem, glad I could help.

I find the the broadband best for coming into inlets and harbors at night and the traditional for tracking targets and weather farther out.


I could also see having 3G/4G helpful on the ICW, rather then traditional radar. Especially at night.


Here's a pic of some weather we encountered a few days ago.
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Old 04-27-2014, 10:04 PM   #27
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:49 AM   #28
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Here are some screen captures from my 4G showing close-in performance. The first capture is in the Swinomish channel, north of La Conner. The second is in the marina (covered moorage).

I've attempted to set the ranges on both the radar and chart plotter to match. You'll notice that the radar range rings are in 1/8 miles in the first plot, but the range rings on the chart are 0.1nm. For some reason, Simrad doesn't think that it's useful to match the two, or better yet couple them. They seem more interested in fluff (like iPad apps). Are you listening Simrad?
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:53 PM   #29
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What I'm finding very interesting is more than e technology, it's how others use their radar.

I think my radar will go down to .75nm as its lowest setting but I'm not sure.

I run ours at 3nm as the lowest I've thought of needing for our area.

Typically I run it as 6 or 12 nm which seems to work great.

I suppose in a dense fog, in a very crowded narrow seaway you might need the really short ranges but 1/8 mile is what 400 some odd feet?

That's really tight!
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Old 04-28-2014, 04:23 PM   #30
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What I'm finding very interesting is more than e technology, it's how others use their radar.

I think my radar will go down to .75nm as its lowest setting but I'm not sure.

I run ours at 3nm as the lowest I've thought of needing for our area.

Typically I run it as 6 or 12 nm which seems to work great.

I suppose in a dense fog, in a very crowded narrow seaway you might need the really short ranges but 1/8 mile is what 400 some odd feet?

That's really tight!
The range rings on the second chart are at 100' intervals. I think you can reasonably see things down to about 20' from the boat. This is useful for both narrow channels, and for coming into crowded anchorages. Even when visibility is good, I use the radar to check the distance to other boats when anchoring and adjusting the scope. I've found that I've previously estimated boats being a lot closer than they are. This radar has allowed me to anchor in places where I wouldn't have thought there was enough room. It's also good for checking anchor drag.

I too run 6-10 miles when I'm out on more open water. I like as much warning as possible for ferry and shipping traffic.
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:31 PM   #31
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It looks like I am back to the research mode. The local Simrad installer advised me that the last two ship dates were missed and now Simrad is delaying the shipping until some time in June. I want the broadband radar but if Simrad can't ship their product, I might be moving over to Garmin.
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Old 05-08-2014, 07:06 AM   #32
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What product is delayed? NSS EVO? I ordered and received an NSS7 EVO, but I think that was the first to ship of the family.
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Old 05-08-2014, 07:54 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
What I'm finding very interesting is more than e technology, it's how others use their radar.

I think my radar will go down to .75nm as its lowest setting but I'm not sure.

I run ours at 3nm as the lowest I've thought of needing for our area.

Typically I run it as 6 or 12 nm which seems to work great.

I suppose in a dense fog, in a very crowded narrow seaway you might need the really short ranges but 1/8 mile is what 400 some odd feet?

That's really tight!
Thanks Kevin and Oliver for a good discussion.

I had actually assumed that pulsed radar would do better at all ranges. That seems incorrect now. Also, while i occasionally have my radar at 3nm range, even hen I'm on the ocean I seldom have it further since I can avoid easily anything that gets within that range and when they do, I decrease the range.

But in fog or at night, I like it 1/2 mile at most.
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Old 12-03-2014, 10:09 AM   #34
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Reading this reminds me of the completely awful tech support, dumping product support, eliminating repairs and parts availability from Simrad.


What was I thinking, contemplating a purchase from them?

The company I work for had invested in around 32 15" or 17" Simrad Chart plotters, later upgraded to MaxC plotters, LCD radar screens and some flat panel displays with 3 to 6' open arrays. 20 Autopilots, around a dozen gps heading sensors, and joysticks. This was in the vicinity of around a half million dollars in sales!

One by one they have all died, or been junked. It is true Simrad abandons products after the production run is finished.

I can't believe that they haven't cleaned up their act. Denton Md.... are you listening? Thanks for the trip down memory lane. (bad memories they are!)

Athough, in their defense, the autopilots are excellent both in performance and reliability. The radars and plotters are junk though.
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Old 12-04-2014, 02:13 PM   #35
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I have Si-Tex 5' open array that I've had for 2 years. Have not been out at night, in fog or rain, I've only used it in good conditions to become comfortable with trusting it for the time I get caught out in adverse conditions. The one thing I've noticed is that channel markers will show up in front of till I'am about 200' away but when I pass them they'll show up around 50' beside the boat. If I get a mount with a forward tilt of a few degrees would this help on targets showing up closer to the boat? I'am comfortable and happy with it's operation now but a target showing up in front of me till I get closer would help if in a small harbor or marina in the fog.
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Old 12-04-2014, 02:23 PM   #36
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No, changing the angle will not remove the dead spot close in. Military vessels use a combination or radar arrays to cover all distances, only the broad band radar will work well close in. Broad band radar installations require a mounting position as low as possible without obstructions to have good close in performance, or they will "overlook" targets close in. I have broad band G3 only on board, pretty much good only close in but what you need to find an anchorage in dark, fog, and rain.

My opinions are based on my military service as an Operations Specialist (surface radar operator), and my own broad band Simrad G3 unit. To do it right, you really need both.
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Old 12-04-2014, 02:24 PM   #37
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Thank you.
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Old 12-04-2014, 02:32 PM   #38
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Yes. Look at the specs for the vertical beam angle, then visualize it projecting
directly off the face of your antenna.
The radar will "see" only what's in the beam. If the bottom of the beam is too high
you will "miss" objects in close.
Tilt (shim) the unit to angle lower forward. Don"t forget to allow for running trim
(bow rise at cruise).
Tried and tested, it works.
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:18 PM   #39
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Koden & Simrad 4G Radar at same time?

The phenomenon you are describing is able to be adjusted to (almost) eliminate the 'warp' in the center. It has been years. But IIRC it is 'Main Bang Suppression' adjustment.

When you go out, try to find a long flat object. jetty, sea wall or container ship. Travel parallel close to ( maybe 200' off) and see if the 'warp' follows you along.

Out of curiosity, how high is your scanner off the water? Is this on Northern Lights? Is it any different up on plane versus when barely moving? As previously suggested, A large change in trim may be the issue also.
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:59 PM   #40
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The phenomenon you are describing is able to be adjusted to (almost) eliminate the 'warp' in the center. It has been years. But IIRC it is 'Main Bang Suppression' adjustment.

When you go out, try to find a long flat object. jetty, sea wall or container ship. Travel parallel close to ( maybe 200' off) and see if the 'warp' follows you along.

Out of curiosity, how high is your scanner off the water? Is this on Northern Lights? Is it any different up on plane versus when barely moving? As previously suggested, A large change in trim may be the issue also.

Yes it's on " Northern Lights", I've never used it up on plane because I figured if I got caught out in the fog or such I would be moving rather slow, with the bow rise without using tabs I'ld probably be seeing satellites. The scanner is about 16' above the water the vertical beam is 25 degrees and the horizontal is 1.7 degrees. I did the MBS adjustment after getting it mounted when I put it into operation. I also used the auto tune function because of my lack of experience with radar. I've not played with the forward tilt on it because the arch has rot and I'am leaning towards a Atlantic Towers replacement and didn't want to mess with it till that is taken care of.
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