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Old 12-14-2013, 11:57 AM   #41
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Reuben

If you are running your chargers on shore power and at the same time using your inverters have you isolated your ac neutral bus bars as to the two power sources on the boat? The shore power of course has it neutral connected to ground and an inverter while operating connects the ac output neutral to the boat's ground. Thus the possibility of two grounds, unless of course isolated.

How was it done on Sunshine?

Marty
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:41 PM   #42
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Reuben

If you are running your chargers on shore power and at the same time using your inverters have you isolated your ac neutral bus bars as to the two power sources on the boat? The shore power of course has it neutral connected to ground and an inverter while operating connects the ac output neutral to the boat's ground. Thus the possibility of two grounds, unless of course isolated.

How was it done on Sunshine?

Marty
My inverter grounds to the DC negative bus bar.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:25 PM   #43
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Don

Moonstruck's arrangement is normal. But on Sunshine both shore power and the inverter are supplying power (not just pass through) at the same time. Thus two sources of power and possibly two grounds.

Marty
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:55 PM   #44
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Trickle Charge

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One fellow I know swears by a solar charger to keep the batteries topped up when leaving the vessel unattended for extended periods.

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I like solar. Of course you need a controller/charger between the PV array and the battery bus.

I set my solar charger to a higher voltage than my shore charger. - this keeps it charging even when plugged in.
Perhaps I should have included the word 'trickle charge' as his method of keeping the batteries full doing times away from his vessel. I believe that is the way he described it to me,....not an over size solar charging system, but just a 'trickle' to maintain a fully charged battery(s).
Does this sound correct?,..... and as simple as he made it sound??
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:01 PM   #45
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Regarding automatic switching.

One nice thing about current crop of charger/inverters is they switch so fast , the clock on the microwave holds the time. Ditto other electronics plugged in to AC.

My current philosophy completely bypasses ANY switching among AC power sources. (Shore, inverter or generator) making operation seamless to the user.

1. ALL AC power used aboard is from the inverter(s ).
2. Shore power leads ONLY to the battery charger. New chargers can work OK on voltages ranging from 90 VAC to 300 VAC - 50 or. 60 Hz. Do if you're plugged in at the end of the dock with ancient wiring,you're charging OK.
3. Variable speed DC generator.
4. Other charging as desired. - engine alternators, wind, solar, re-generative motor/generator (hybrid )

You always have perfect AC power - 120V - 60 Hz.

No switching ever when leaving shore or starting the generator.

With a sizable battery , you can sit on the hook overnight w/o the genset running a modest amount of air conditioning.
Sounds like the type of system I would desire.

Question? Are you utilizing a variable DC generator in the place of a more conventional Aux AC Generator Set?
If so, what make and model??
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:42 PM   #46
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[QUOTE=rjtrane;198712]Regarding automatic switching.

One nice thing about current crop of charger/inverters is they switch so fast , the clock on the microwave holds the time. Ditto other electronics plugged in to AC.


Not exactly my experience.

My reason for initiating this thread was to explore options for replacing my recently deceased Xantrex stand alone inverter. General opinion was the Victron multi charger, or similar, was the way to go. This would give me the added benefit of now having my original charger as a ready to go back up if I ran into problems with the charging side of the new unit, this made sense to me.

I am happy with the new unit, however unlike the old unit, the Victron is very slow in changing from inverter to A/C, takes about 5 seconds after flicking the switch for the inverter to activate A/C.

I have been caught out a few times turning on the A/C eutectic fridges and hot water etc before the unit has switched, and the Victron lets you know in know uncertain terms that you have exceeded its 2000watt capacity.I try to be careful about this as I understand this can be one of the great inverter killers.

Switching from A/C to inverter is pretty much instantaneous.
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:38 PM   #47
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Marty. I may not have made myself clear. We do not supply ANY shore power to the AC bus. Shore power ONLY goes to the charger.

We ave a pair of 3.6 kW inverters. Each one powers it's own AC panel. We do not mix any AC power.

Brian. We have no stand alone generator on Sunshine. Our Steyr parallel hybrid diesels each has a permanent magnet motor/generator. With the diesel running , it produces up to 5 kW of 48 VDC (each). Under electric drive, each is capable of up to 7 7kW of propulsion drive.

In a serial hybrid system , we would look closely at the Fischer Panda DC generators among others.

Our electrical system would be equally at home on a non-hybrid system.
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