Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-05-2017, 04:58 PM   #1
Member
 
City: Mt Albert
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: After Sailing
Vessel Model: Mainship 390
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 15
Inverter activation

I have a 2002 Mainship 390 with a Freedom 3000 inverter / charger.
The inverter charger is working perfectly according to the book,
all the right lights are on/flashing it shows that its inverting and I can hear the hum. (due to the inaccessibility I use the phone to video the lights, that's why I know everything is OK, ) the breaker on the inverter is OK also

what I cannot figure out is how to actually get the power to the boat.
The inverter is mounted in a inaccessible place and operated by the remote panel.

I guess I have not figured out in what configuration my breakers, need to be for the inverter to direct the power to the outlets. (unless there is a transfer switch I don't know about) I would appreciate some suggestions I could try before crawling around and having to trace wires.
__________________
Advertisement

tooldev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 05:06 PM   #2
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 4,614
It should be set to automatically power your outlets etc. when shore power is not present.

And yes, there is in all likliehood a switch somewhere that allows you to bypass the inverter and that switch may be set to bypass.
__________________

menzies is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 06:08 PM   #3
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,829
Inverters were installed by dealers so there is no standard installation scheme. The inverter on my Pilot 34 is also a Freedom but the 2000 model and this is how it is installed and how it works:

The inverter takes AC power from the shore power inlet and it passes through an internal transfer switch. When there is shore power it passes the power through the inverter with no change and then on to the main AC panel. If there is no shore power and the inverter is turned on (more about that later) the internal switch takes power produced from inverting DC power to AC and sends it to the main AC panel. It also keeps the AC power being back fed to the shore power outlet. If shorepower is returned then the switch goes back to that source and the inverting source is turned off.

Turning the inverter on or off is easily done with the remote panel. I have attached a pdf copy of the manual. Simply push the Invert button when there is no shore power present and the inverter comes and the circuits fed by the inverter will be active and the remote panel will show approximately how much DC power is being used to make that power.

But there is one significant installation quirk. While my inverter sends power to the main breaker which could also power the water heater, stove or A/C which is not a good use of inverter power and on mine would trip out the inverter as it only is rated to make 2,000 watts.

So the better way to install it is for shore power to come to the main panel, use a secondary breaker of 30 amps to feed the inverter AC supply and then return the inverter (or shore power if it is on) power to selected breakers to avoid powering the heavy loads. This is done by cutting the heavy hot buss bar and arranging for the heavy loads to be fed by the main breaker and the others to be fed from the inverter's transfer switch. This isolates the inverter output to just the moderate loads.

Don't know how yours is wired. So first try hitting the Invert button, but I suspect you have already done that. Then look for a 30 amp breaker on the main panel, hopefully labeled Inverter and turn that on when you want to use it.

Another way to wire it which is almost as good is to power the inverter directly from the main AC breaker, isolate the moderate loads and power them from the inverter's output. This takes some careful consideration of wire size to be safe and legal as the main AC breaker is usually rated for 50A on most newer Mainships but the internal inverter transfer switch is rated for 30A which is a safety issue.

David
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Freedom Remote Owners Guide.pdf (542.7 KB, 27 views)
djmarchand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:14 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
City: Brownsville, WA
Country: USA
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 71
All of your outlets connected through the inverter? On my boat only select outlets are powered by the Freedom.
mgdavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:23 PM   #5
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 4,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgdavis View Post
All of your outlets connected through the inverter? On my boat only select outlets are powered by the Freedom.
I have a 4KW inverter based off a house of 12 golf cart batteries and, yes, all of my outlets, including microwave, entertainment center, lights, etc are run off the inverter.
menzies is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 11:18 AM   #6
Member
 
City: Mt Albert
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: After Sailing
Vessel Model: Mainship 390
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 15
Thanks to all the responses I can work more methodical through the problem, the point that only certain outlets are power is very valid and I will investigate that.
the fact that I did not understand the function of the automatic transfer switch was a big problem. I kept switching the main breaker off mistakenly thinking that I would back feed.
tooldev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2017, 09:32 PM   #7
Guru
 
Steve's Avatar
 
City: Thibodaux, Louisiana
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Gumbo
Vessel Model: 2003 Monk 36
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,873
I have a Magnum inverter When installing it one can select certain outlets to be powered by it or all can be powered. Maybe yours is like that. In my case I chose to power the galley and saloon outlets only.
__________________
Steve W.
http://mvgumbo.blogspot.com/
Steve is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 07:46 AM   #8
Guru
 
CaptTom's Avatar
 
City: Southern Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,833
I've seen all kinds of crazy ways to wire inverters. Don't assume yours makes sense.

If you're hearing a 60Hz hum, you're probably powering something through the inverter. If it's idle and waiting for a load, you'll hear a "click" about twice a second or so, and no hum.

Obviously switch labels can give you a clue, but again, don't assume. Failing that, looking at the back of the AC panel should help narrow things down. If different breakers are fed by two different sources, one probably goes through the inverter while the other is directly connected to shore power. If they all have the same source, either all or none go through the inverter, and you probably want to change that.
CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 09:29 PM   #9
Guru
 
foggysail's Avatar
 
City: Ashland, MA
Country: United States
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,089
I have several inverters onboard, two active and one as a spare. The inverter that backs up our dock power is a 2KW true sinewave unit that I first turn on when the boat is launched in April/May and turned off in late October when the boat is hauled.

The inverter's output is relay switched to loads whenever AC dock or genny power is not available. Sure, it wastes power, who cares as long as the sun shines daily. This works fine for me although others may prefer to only power an inverter when it is required.
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 09:38 PM   #10
Guru
 
foggysail's Avatar
 
City: Ashland, MA
Country: United States
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post



Another way to wire it which is almost as good is to power the inverter directly from the main AC breaker, isolate the moderate loads and power them from the inverter's output. This takes some careful consideration of wire size to be safe and legal as the main AC breaker is usually rated for 50A on most newer Mainships but the internal inverter transfer switch is rated for 30A which is a safety issue.

David
Dave--- your suggestion needs more thought. Oversizing a protection device can be devastating. I am old enough to remember people putting pennies behind fuses in electrical load centers because didn't blow during overloads.
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 11:15 PM   #11
Guru
 
Maerin's Avatar
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: M/V Maerin
Vessel Model: Solo 4303
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 824
A caution when powering loads from an inverter: Insure that the neutrals for the circuits powered by the inverter are connected (only) to the inverter's output neutral.

Per ABYC recommendations, the inverter connects the safety ground green wire and the neutral from the output of the inverter. This is to comply with the NEC requirement that the neutral and safety ground be connected at the source of the power. If shore power is connected, the neutral-ground connection takes place at the source of that power: the panel that serves the pedestal. If your power is being provided by a generator, the neutral-ground connection is made at the generator, the power source. If an inverter is providing 120V power, the ground-neutral connection is made at the inverter via an internal relay that makes the connection when the inverter is creating power. It is disconnected when shore power is restored and the inverter is no longer the source of the power and only operating as a pass-thru for 120V power. At that point, the inverter connects the shore power neutral to the inverter output neutral via the pass-thru.

Why is this of any concern? Neutral is neutral and it will work either way... well. sorta-until you plug in to an ELCI protected pedestal! The imbalance created by the inverter-powered load neutrals and the safety ground connection can be detected by the ELCI breaker, and cause a fault trip. Since many of the new ELCI-protected systems are wired to trip a primary breaker, a fault trip can take down power for an entire pier. It's a sure way to make fast friends on a hot summer night when the guy with the key to the main panel has gone home for the day!

The rollout of the new NEC requirements for upgraded protection of marina power systems is revealing problems that have been lurking undetected for some time. The solutions unfortunately, can be both troublesome to diagnose and time consuming to correct. If you're doing any alterations to power wiring, it might be prudent to get a marine electrician on board who's experienced in correcting leakage problems. As time progresses, there's an increasing chance you'll encounter the ELCI problem. Dealing with the correction earlier rather than later might head off a crisis.
__________________
Steve Sipe
Selene 4303 Maerin
http://maerin.net
Maerin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2017, 06:00 PM   #12
Member
 
City: Mt Albert
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: After Sailing
Vessel Model: Mainship 390
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 15
To all who replied to my initial question , thank you.
After Reading all the responses and additional online info I could still not get it to work. So I decided to open the electro panel to find the one from the inverter.
I found it, it was terminated and not connected to anything!!!!!!
It works and I temporarily hooked it to a circuit which worked perfectly.
With everything I learned I can star with a clean sheet and wire it in to energize a secondary circuit to power my coffee machine.
Thank you all and have a great summer
__________________

tooldev is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×