Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-03-2015, 11:30 AM   #1
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,139
Question Inside Passage Markers/Buoy Question

OK folks. This one is for those who have done the inside passage. Next year we will be exploring the San Juans up to the Broughtons. How are the channels marked from Desolation Sound to Port McNeal? Are they the traditional red/green markers/buoys. If they are red/green buoys does the "Red Right Return" apply?

Just asking as I do not know and there is the TF experts.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 11:40 AM   #2
Guru
 
Scary's Avatar
 
City: Walnut Grove Ca
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cary'D Away
Vessel Model: Hatteras 48 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 884
What stinking markers

There are very few Channel Markers and Bouy's North of Cambell River.
__________________

Scary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 11:53 AM   #3
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,952
I found very few as well.

I did find the charts on my plotter to be very accurate though.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 12:39 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Doug's Avatar
 
City: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Timeless
Vessel Model: CHB 34
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 101
Mostly you will find the lateral system is used (red/green). Red right returning does apply when proceeding from seaward, upstream or northbound on the west coast. It is always best to identify the hazard the aid to navigation is marking to determine how to pass it. You may encounter some cardinal buoys as well however they are few and far between.
Here's a link to further information.
Canada's Buoyage System - CCG - Aids to Navigation
Doug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 12:46 PM   #5
Guru
 
Tad Roberts's Avatar
 
City: Flattop Islands
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Blackfish
Vessel Model: custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 707
Canadian aids to navigation conform to international standards. Print this out and keep it in the wheelhouse....

http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/folios/0002...p-2011-eng.pdf
Tad Roberts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 12:58 PM   #6
Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,291
You have to know which is returning and some times that can be confusing. That is why I like to use paper charts for the overview and as mentioned it allows you to figure out what the marker is there for by recognizing the danger the marker wants you to avoid. My electronic charts if not tuned to multiple magnifications can lead me astray.
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 12:59 PM   #7
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Somewhere
Country: , Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,864
There are not many bouys and markers as pointed out. Not difficult but just be aware.

In the Broughtons there are rocks and reefs that are simply not marked and some of them stand well off and out from the apparent shore. You must understand where you are. It's not difficult as long as you stay aware of where you are.

This is one area that I definitely use paper charts as well as the electronic. I don't need any electronic failure leaving me going WTH. but I do use that electr. to help confirm where I think I am.

You do not need electr. as we ran up there many times before electr. charts became de riguer but they do help as long as they don't goof up. I'm just mentioning this to point out the area is not difficult, have I said just BE AWARE.

There is one area in particular at Port McNeil that the currents directions are somewhat contrary. Use the charts [ware] and study as the bouys/markers won't make immediate "sense".

When you are using electr. WATCH THE ZOOM LEVEL.
C lectric is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 02:21 PM   #8
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,139
Thanks TAD. Printed and will place in wheel house. Thnaks to everyone else, I knew the TF folks would have knowlege....
__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 02:38 PM   #9
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
One thing up the Passage that we have found to be very helpful in flying up it in very poor visibility (quarter mile if we're lucky) and at altitudes of fifty to one hundred feet are the on-shore markers on the more prominent points of land. I don't know how much value they would have to a boater but we find they make great confirmation that we're following the correct channel. These markers are included on the sectional aviation charts we use on these flights.

With GPS plotters and radar, these markers may have been rendered redundant now, but there have been occasions when we've been glad they're there. Particularly in low visibility-- mist or rain-- the shorelines can all get looking the same so anything that stands out can be helpful.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 09:58 PM   #10
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,605
Inside Passage Markers/Buoy Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
One thing up the Passage that we have found to be very helpful in flying up it in very poor visibility (quarter mile if we're lucky) and at altitudes of fifty to one hundred feet are the on-shore markers on the more prominent points of land. I don't know how much value they would have to a boater but we find they make great confirmation that we're following the correct channel. These markers are included on the sectional aviation charts we use on these flights.

With GPS plotters and radar, these markers may have been rendered redundant now, but there have been occasions when we've been glad they're there. Particularly in low visibility-- mist or rain-- the shorelines can all get looking the same so anything that stands out can be helpful.

WRT prominent points of land, the CHS charts have the height contours on land. The Vector charts DO NOT. That's a good reason to have the paper charts or redundancy with the actual digital CHS charts.

In my view, the biggest issue is understanding the effects of currents on navigation. Be aware that some of the electronic tide tables are not accurate in some areas (Malibu Rapids, for example). Get the CHA tide and current tables, available for purchase ($6.50 each of 3 books). I advise studying the various "sailing directions" volumes as well as some of the cruising guides. Anne Vipond's "Anchorages of the Inside Passage" and Hamilton's "Cruising the Secret Coast" discuss entries into channels, etc.

CHS tide and current tables available online here..

http://www.chs-shc.gc.ca/publications/ctct-tmcc-eng.asp

Finally, be able to use your radar effectively for collision avoidance.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 10:42 PM   #11
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,360
ASD

We have found the buoys from Victoria to well past Glacier Bay are in place to allow "old time navigation" if you have charts. Each turn in the main channels can be made with the next buoy or shore station in sight, even at night. No chart plotters needed. For those who enjoy Log Racing it can be quite a nice experience.

An Ipad with Navionics or similar will allow you to lay out your entire first pass course as you sit in the Oregon winter.

Further to Marin's post, the commercial float plane operators I've met carry and use marine chart plotters.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 10:57 PM   #12
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,165
Canadian bouys and marks comply with the same international standards as US Ocean waters. This is NOT the same as US inland waters rules. Red Right Return applies. The difficulty with this rule is its application when you have no clues present to allow you to determine which direction is the "Return". It is always the best practice to have up to date paper charts along, rather than running from mark to mark. A small investment for a trip through the world's most scenic waterway.
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 11:59 PM   #13
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 83
You might want to pick up a copy of Kevin Monahan's "Local Knowledge":

Local Knowledge: A Skipper's Reference : Tacoma To Ketchikan (Fine Edge Nautical Knowledge): Kevin Monahan: 9781932310115: Amazon.com: Books
Sisuitl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2015, 10:50 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
RCook's Avatar


 
City: Holladay, UT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dream Catcher
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-065
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 498
We find "Ports and Passes" to be much more user-friendly than the Canadian reference books for tides and currents.
__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tug 37)
New Moon (Bounty 257) - FOR SALE
"Cruising in a Big Way"
RCook is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2015, 11:57 AM   #15
Guru
 
kolive's Avatar
 
City: Vashon Island, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Island Breeze
Vessel Model: 1974 Grand Banks 36-427
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 582
Send a message via Skype™ to kolive
SeaDuction,

We will be heading to the Broughtons this summer too. Not sure which route through the "Gates" we will take yet but our plan is to leave first week or so in July and be back to Seattle area last week of August. Hope to run into you somewhere up there.
__________________
Keith Olive
1974 Grand Banks 36-427
Vashon Island, WA
kolive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2015, 12:28 PM   #16
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary View Post
There are very few Channel Markers and Bouy's North of Cambell River.
This comment is the first I've heard that people would consider this an issue. I certainly haven't compared Puget Sound with the local waters up here and said "Wow! How come there aren't any channel markers?"

The CHS puts out the "Pacific Coast Sailing Directions" which are intended to accompany the charts.

Canadian Hydrographic Service

As mentioned, Kevin Monahan's recent book "Local Knowledge" has an excellent section on the currents of the main passages north and is worth a read because he explains the dynamics of the currents in Cordero Passage and Johnstone Strait and how to use these currents to your advantage.

We found the Cordero Channel route to be preferable to Seymour Narrows. Everybody and his dog goes through Seymour Narrows at slack water and it can be a bit of a gong show. Cruise ships, tugs with tows, small sail boats trying to sail through--you name it. Transiting the three sets of rapids in Cordero Channel (Dents, Gillards and Yucultas) requires careful timing. You will want to time things for slack water at the Dents and Monahan provides information on how to do these calculations.

BTW, perhaps this thread should be moved to the general forum as it really isn't anything to do with Electronics etc.?

Jim
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2015, 05:16 PM   #17
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,139
Great responses everyone. Just planning. Just to be clear we are not traveling until summer 2016. Thanks everyone. JD my question was about navigation. Isn't this Electrical and Electronics and Navigation forum?
__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2015, 06:42 PM   #18
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,706
ASD,
Because of storms, tides, remoteness and other factors nav aids are not maintained as well as they are down south with some exceptions that have heavy traffic like Wrangell Narrows. I once heard a report of a can in the wrong place (in the narrows) and just as we got there the CG arrived to rectify the situation. Been through Rocky Pass several times and don't recall any issues at all. They took all the nav aids out of there some years ago to discourage traffic. Put them back about 10 years ago I think. I admit I wouldn't go through there w/o nav aids AND a GPS chart plotter. My dad did though. Went through half of Rocky Pass many times hunting w his good friend Rod Darnell ... in Rod's old wood Chris Craft.

I Alaska it's best to be more independent than down south but I wouldn't say SE is risky due to poor nav aids.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 12:59 PM   #19
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,139
Thanks Eric. It was the same way in south central Alaska, Prince William Sound. Very few markers until you get to the shipping lanes out of Valdez.
__________________

__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012