Increasing House Bank

[Shrew]

Engine: Single Yanmar
Generator: Koehler 8k
Charger: Charles 50a 3-bank

Current Battery Bank:
--------------------------------------------------
Starting Battery: 1 x 8D Deep Cycle AGM (Lifeline)
House Battery: 1 x 8D Deep Cycle AGM (Lifeline)
Generator: 1 x Group 24(?) Starting batt. FLA
--------------------------------------------------


OBJECTIVE:
--------------------------------------------------
Starting Battery: 1 x (?*) Starting AGM
House Bank: 2 x 8D Deep Cycle AGM (Lifeline)

Generator: 1 x Group 24 (?) Starting Batt. AGM
--------------------------------------------------

This now has me working on re-charging.

1) I'd like to be able to charge all 4 batteries. I've never seen a 4 bank charger.

2) I'd like to charge multiple banks while underway, such as with an automated charging relay. I've only ever seen these in 2 bank configurations.

What are my options here?

 

[DavidM]

Well, unless you separate your two 8D AGMs into two house banks, which I highly discourage, you just have three banks, so no problem keeping them all charged with the shore power charger.


Wire the new 8D AGM in parallel with the existing one with heavy 2/0 battery jumper type cables and you have a two battery bank and everything else stays the same.


Three banks typically takes two ACRs but many just let the genset battery only get recharged by the shorepower charger which should be powered up when the genset is running.


But you do lose a slight amount of genset starting battery reliability if you do that. If you keep a short jumper on board that will temporarily connect the genset start battery with one of the other two, you don't lose any reliability. That is a lot cheaper than a second ACR, and that is what I would do.



David

 

[Bacchus]

Shrew
As usual I agree w David.
My MS has 3 8Ds plus a Gp 24 gen start.
2 8Ds are separate start/house w a 1-2-both-off sw and the 3rd 8D for thrusters only.
MS installed a diode isolator to charge the 4 battys w a 3 bank charger. As part of a related charging system mod I removed the isolator and now only charge the 3 8Ds. I replaced the gen batty On/Off switch w a 1-2-Both-Off sw (same physical size & mtg bolts) and added a jumper from house.
The sw is essentially a permanently installed jumper cable that allows emergency cross connect and also allows me to occasionally top off the charge on the gen batty bt tieing into the house/start bank.
If interested the details of the mods is on my Bacchus - Projects - website linked in my signature or

http://dkloeber.wixsite.com/bacchus

Don

 

[ranger58sb]

Engine: Single Yanmar
Generator: Koehler 8k
Charger: Charles 50a 3-bank

OBJECTIVE:
--------------------------------------------------
Starting Battery: 1 x (?*) Starting AGM
House Bank: 2 x 8D Deep Cycle AGM (Lifeline)
Generator: 1 x Group 24 (?) Starting Batt. AGM
--------------------------------------------------

1) I'd like to be able to charge all 4 batteries. I've never seen a 4 bank charger.

2) I'd like to charge multiple banks while underway, such as with an automated charging relay. I've only ever seen these in 2 bank configurations.

That's only 3 banks.

FWIW, 6x Lifeline GPL-4CTs (for example) could be individually easier to install, weight-wise, than the two 8Ds for your house bank... and would give you more capacity for the house bank. Might fit in the same space.

Two G31s will likely start your engine; check for Yanmar's minimum CCA/MCA requirements for that specific engine. One Odyssey PC-2150 (G31 footprint) may work, since the cranking amps from that battery are much higher than many. Two together will likely start almost any engine.

Our genset starter is a single Odyssey G34 (PC-1500) AGM.

You can probably charge everything underway by running the genset with the charger. No relays necessary.

-Chris

 

[Shrew]

Here is a crude diagram:

 

[Shrew]

In the diagram (above) there is one charger leg dedicated to a 2 battery house bank. Is this what you're describing?

 

[O C Diver]

Do you have an inverter? If so, I would buy a 2 bank 6 amp smart charger. If you have an inverter with a automatic transfer switch (when it senses shore power or the generator, it switches the load from inverter to the other 120 vac supply) it will constantly keep the generator and engine battery charged. These two really shouldn't need more than a 6 amp charger to keep them topped up. Then you only need to decide whether your Charles charger is adequate for your house bank.

The above description of running the 6 amp charger off my inverter, is how I charge the 2 batteries for my 24 volt bow thruster. It works perfectly!

Ted

 

[dhays]

I like Chris's suggestion of 2 x grp 31's for the start battery. I have a single Lifeline 8D now for my start battery and when it comes time to replace it, that is what I will do.

I would seriously consider changing your house bank from the 8D to some form of 6v deep cycle batteries. In general, I think it is cheaper, gives better long term performance, and is a LOT easier to install. I went with L16 batteries as I was able to get a great price on them and 4 of them gives me 780Ah. There are a lot of deep cycle AGM 6v batteries out there. Look for not only Golf Cart batteries but sweeper and/or scissors lift batteries as well.

If you have easy access to the batteries you can save a lot of money by using Costco or Sam's club wet cell GC batteries.

Everyone's system is different, however I would suggest that you direct all charge sources to the house bank and then use any number of ways to charge your start batteries. An ACR works great for the start battery but I would also consider an Echo Charger or Duo Charger. For the genset, an Echo Charger would be great. It is simple and easy to install.


When setup this way your shore powered charger simply is connected to your house bank and the other systems take care of the two starting banks automatically.

 

[FlyWright]

Shrew, you can parallel the 2 8Ds and treat them as one bank from the charger. Then the start is bank 2 and gen #3.

 

[ranger58sb]

Here is a crude diagram:

In the diagram (above) there is one charger leg dedicated to a 2 battery house bank. Is this what you're describing?

Ummm... close... sorta-kinda... I think you got carried away with ground connections on the rightmost three batts or something...

Imagine the 2 house bank 8D batteries connected together in parallel. Imagine pos from charger to one, ground from charger to the other... services the whole bank.

Imagine starter battery (or batteries); one pos from charger, one neg from charger... for that whole bank.

Imagine genset batt; pos from charger, neg from charger.

That's just for conceptual simplicity; your ground from the charger may actually go to a buss somewhere instead of directly to individual battery banks.

It's only slightly more complicated to replace those two 8Ds (approx 490 Ah) with 6x GC2s (approx 660 Ah) or L16s or whatever in series/parallel... but in that case too, the 6-batt bank would be getting one charging pos and one charging neg.

-Chris

 

[Shrew]

1) The 2 existing 8D are being combined into a house bank. I'm not really redesigning my existing setup this time around. The next time, I will consider 6V in series-parallel.

2) I'm adding a starting battery.

3) It's a common ground system. I'm pretty sure the ground diagram is correct.

The gist of it is, I didn't realize that connecting the batteries in parallel I could connect the charging circuit to a single positive post in that bank.

I assume I could do the same with an ACR and connect one leg to a positive post on the house bank and the other to a positive post on the starter batt. and do the same thing.

 

[Shrew]

Two G31s will likely start your engine; check for Yanmar's minimum CCA/MCA requirements for that specific engine. One Odyssey PC-2150 (G31 footprint) may work, since the cranking amps from that battery are much higher than many. Two together will likely start almost any engine.

RE: Starting batteries

I like Lifeline AGM's. I'm willing to look at other brands, I've simply had extremely good luck with them. I had my last house bank last 10 years with no complaints. The largest Lifeline makes in a starting battery is a Group 31.

Group 31:
-> Ah: 100
--> CCA @ 68: 1120 A

I suspect this is why you're suggesting to wire them in parallel? Otherwise, I'd need a 4d which seems like overkill.

I have a Yanmar 6LPA-STP2 which only calls for (12v x 120Ah). This is odd to me as it would seem CCA would be more appropriate for the starting battery requirements.

 

[ranger58sb]

RE: Starting batteries

I like Lifeline AGM's. I'm willing to look at other brands, I've simply had extremely good luck with them. I had my last house bank last 10 years with no complaints. The largest Lifeline makes in a starting battery is a Group 31.

Group 31:
-> Ah: 100
--> CCA @ 68: 1120 A

I suspect this is why you're suggesting to wire them in parallel? Otherwise, I'd need a 4d which seems like overkill.

I have a Yanmar 6LPA-STP2 which only calls for (12v x 120Ah). This is odd to me as it would seem CCA would be more appropriate for the starting battery requirements.

I'm prepared to like Lifelines, too... but our "new" 4CT bank is only about a year old, so no verdict yet.

The rest of our AGM batteries are, or have been, Odyssey -- including the 3x G31 (PC-2150s) I replaced with the Lifelines -- and I've been very pleased with those. Since our main battery banks are dual-purpose, I wanted to be sure we could crank... but the oldest bank lasted 11-12 seasons including house functions, too... so I reckon I got my money's worth. The other dual-purpose bank of 3x PC-2150s is on its 9th season now, still going strong.

But I only meant to let you know the PC-2150s are rated at higher cranking amps than many other brands that I know of, in case that was useful for you. CCA (0°F) 1150, MCA (32°) 1370, HCA (68°) 1545.

ODYSSEY Battery - Extreme Series Specs

Without knowing what your engine wants, I was only guessing about 1 or maybe 2 together might be necessary.

I too would have been looking for Yanmar guidance expressed in cranking amps of one sort or other.

-Chris