Honda portable generator?

[Insequent]

Honda etc should not be for regular use. The risks are real, but for emergency or occasional use, with care, I think is OK. Run them where prevailing wind will take fumes away from the boat. Always be on board when using them.

 

[High Wire]

Honda etc should not be for regular use. The risks are real, but for emergency or occasional use, with care, I think is OK. Run them where prevailing wind will take fumes away from the boat. Always be on board when using them.

X2...
AND CO detectors.

 

[Sugardog]

It amazes me the price rise in portable generators over the last ten or twelve years, I paid $1800 for my Honda 8kw in '04, now you can't buy a 3k for that.

 

[Maerin]

Quiet?

I'm hearing impaired, even without my aids in place, I can point out a running "quiet Honda" in an anchorage 5 boats over. The only folks maintaining they're quiet are the folks running one.

If you have one, make SURE you have a functioning CO (it's NOT CO2) monitor in place, one that does the algorithmic background calculations and can alert you before the CO accumulation makes you groggy enough that you'll ignore it. CO poisoning mimics symptoms of seasickness, it's cumulative, and it's insidious. Be very vigilant if you're using a portable gasoline powered anything. Yep, I hear you've never had a problem. You may never know if you do.

 

[High Wire]

It amazes me the price rise in portable generators over the last ten or twelve years, I paid $1800 for my Honda 8kw in '04, now you can't buy a 3k for that.

A 6500 watt non-inverter Honda generator is still about $1900 new.

 

[sunchaser]

In the very wet PNW, how do the portable gas powered gensets fare when parked on the swim platform for several hours per day?

 

[diver dave]

The ABYC really discourages the use of these generators in on-board applications for two very important reasons. The first reason is electrical. The ABYC requires that for 120-volt AC systems, the neutral conductor and grounding conductor be joined at the source of power (the generator in this case) so that in the event of an electrical short circuit at an appliance, the fault current will get carried directly back to the power source and trip a breaker. Portable generators often keep the neutral and grounding conductors isolated from one another on the device. This is internal to the unit and not easily modified.

If the current can’t find its way back to the breaker it’s either going to leave the boat or start a fire. If it leaves the boat it could very well electrocute some one.

Second issue carbon monoxide.

I don’t believe Honda recommends their generators for marine use.

This ground the neutral vs float the neutral is actually more complicated than that, both by code and by practiced safety.


In "small scale" installations, a floating output is safer. Why? Because contact with either HOT or neutral, reference a grounded human, will not result in deadly current flow. There is no complete current path thru the human. The overcurrent issue is not related. If you draw too much current, or a Hot to neutral short happens, the overcurrent protection is still active, and safe.
THere are some classic examples of "floating" power. Naval ships for one. But, this is more of a reliability improvement strategy.

So, why are homes and businesses using grounded neutral? Because the added threat with "large scale" installations is the issue of lightning protection, and step down transformer primary to secondary faults. Both cases benefit and require earthing of one current carrrying conductor on the load side.

A small boat would benefit from a floating, isolated from ground, ac distribution system, when supplied by an on-board genset. So would your home, but this is a demand for a 50kW isolation transformer, economically out of reach.

So, bottom line. Do not connect the neutral and case/ground/earth together on your portable gensets. It would DECREASE safety.

THe complication for a yacht, is that the same panel is used for shore based power, which is always neutral to earth bonded. So, it becomes part of what I call, large scale installation

 

[Woodland Hills]

Yamaha 2400, it has a large capacitor built into the unit that lets it handle surge loads (like a/c start) without kicking offline. It is still pull start so it is light enough to carry, barely.

 

[Woodland Hills]

In the very wet PNW, how do the portable gas powered gensets fare when parked on the swim platform for several hours per day?

This is why they make Hefty bags.......

 

[AKDoug]

I have had a 2000i on board since I purchased 5 years ago. It's quiet enough so that IF all it's doing is charging the batteries, by the time I am 50 yards away I can't tell if it's running or not (kayaking). I often leave it running when I go hiking or kayaking to top the batteries so I don't have to listen to it when aboard.

Since I installed a Balmar 100amp HO alternator, I almost never run the Honda. I only have the refrigerator and the stereo operating when at anchor. With about 450 AH in the 2 4D's have never noticed a draw down. If I am on the hook for more than 2 days I run the Honda just to be sure the batteries get cycled.

It sits on a transom plate at cap rail height so the wind draws the exhaust off well, and I have a CO detector as well. I have never had the generator run out of fuel when charging the batteries, but it will if I am running an electric heater and charging batteries. It never comes of low idle charging batteries...

 

[IRENE]

In the very wet PNW, how do the portable gas powered gensets fare when parked on the swim platform for several hours per day?

I have had mine out there in the rain like that once. It didn't seem to suffer any.

 

[Al]

Well, as usual, even with reading all the posters on how to put a photo into a post I am not able. Too damn old I suppose.
I have a 2000 Honda. I have used such for over 16 years on two boats. It runs quite because I have it installed within a 100 Qt Igloo cooler located on the flybridge. I do not bother my neighbors ahead, behind, alongside when I run this Honda. No it doesn't get so hot to be a concern, Yes, there is sufficient air to the engine, Yes I can run all of my electrical components, A small AC fridge, which we shut off once we are on the anchor. It holds very well even with evening opening and closing several times during the evening activities. The toaster and or coffee pot in the morning yada, yada, yada.
No we do not heat the hot water tank. That is off the engine and any body requirements are accomplished knowing the water is hot at the anchoring time.
Water will remain hot or warm enough to complete the morning task and the main is started for the day.
We are a 28 foot boat so requirements are slight compared with you bigger boys.

How is the cooler employed? We cut out one end and had a metal frame constructed to fit the opening. We installed grating from our local hardware store in this grill opening. The Honda exaust and air combination end of the Honda is facing this grill . Aft of the Honda, in factory designed slots in each side, we inserted a plywood wall with opening cut in to allow the plug in of the electrical cord. This cord which has the marine electrical fitting to match the shore power receptacle, is stored in the remaining compartment along with a two gallon gas supply. The other end of the cooler has a slot allowing the electrical cord to be run out and down to the receptacle.
We run the Honda with the lid of the cooler closed in effect the noise level is nil at idle and while close by you can hear the action if the charger has a demand, not to the level that neighbors are concerned.
Wish I could give you pictures, darn!!

Al-Ketchikan

 

[Sugardog]

A good hush box makes for good neighbors.

 

[rwidman]

Some people use solar panels to keep their batteries charged. Quieter and no operating cost or moving a generator around.

 

[ssobol]

I have a Honda EU1000i for my boat. I have found that for charging the batteries the boat motor works a lot better and charges the batteries much faster (~20 amps). The generator is only used when we need 120vac and don't have shore power.

 

[Al]

Some people use solar panels to keep their batteries charged. Quieter and no operating cost or moving a generator around.

Usually looking Butt Ugly scattered,looped, and hung all over space not designed for such objects.

 

[Bob Cofer]

I think not!

 

[Al]

View attachment 69818

I think not!

Always an exception-

 

[Insequent]

or two?

 

[john61ct]

A big charger that lets you derate the current works well.

Promariner and Sterling are two lines.

 

[psneeld]

My promariner 50 amp batt charger derated to 50 percent puts 25 amps into the batteries from a Honda 1000 in econo mode.

Doing it as I post this.

Not perfect, but if it runs for 3 hours after the solar panels quit, it supplies power to a fridge. TV, misc lights and electronics chargers and tops off the batteries for overnight. Usually the Balmar batt monitor is down around 90 percent on 6 golf cart batteries so around 675 amp hrs battery bank.

 

[john61ct]

For batt charging purposes much better off running the genny in the morning when batts accept more amps.

Better with a good shunt-based batt monitor so you can see acceptance change.

Start off by getting bank to 75-80% before solar production ramps up, then let solar handle the low amps "long tail" rest of the day. Note when amps falls to .005C, and next day maybe stop the genny earlier.

Depends on weather, loads etc, but pretty soon you get a feel for it.

 

[psneeld]

Not my experience...and without knowing my solar capability you are making rash assumptions.

Better to keep the batteries topped than to try and bring them up unless you have mega charging...which I dont until my main genny is fixed.

My method lets solar bring them up tomorrow easily, with all day sun and less amp demand. If I ran the genny in the morning, much of my solar generation would go wasted on already topped batteries.

 

[john61ct]

I'm talking standard best practice, but yes your use case may be exceptional, like if you only run loads while the sun is high in the sky.

Just know between 50-80% an AGM 200AH bank might accept that 60A in 30 minutes.

But getting from 95% to true 100% Full, the last 10 Amps will take 2-3 hours, because toward the end the bank can't accept more than a 1-3A charge rate.

If the solar isn't getting to the 100% point, you might only need 30 min or an hour genny charging in the AM.

But "topping up" end of the day you're wasting the vast majority of your fuel.

Unless running the genny for other purposes anyway, doing laundry or something.


http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/effect_of_charge_rate_on_agm_battery

 

[FlyWright]

I'm talking standard best practice, but yes your use case may be exceptional, like if you only run loads while the sun is high in the sky.

Just know between 50-80% an AGM 200AH bank might accept that 60A in 30 minutes.

But getting from 95% to true 100% Full, the last 10 Amps will take 2-3 hours, because toward the end the bank can't accept more than a 1-3A charge rate.

If the solar isn't getting to the 100% point, you might only need 30 min or an hour genny charging in the AM.

But "topping up" end of the day you're wasting the vast majority of your fuel.

Unless running the genny for other purposes anyway, doing laundry or something.


How Fast Can an AGM Battery Be Charged..? Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

What type of system do you run on your boat, John? Genset? Honda gen? What make and size charger?

If you have a boat, do you ever charge in the PM?

 

[Bob Cofer]

We have the generator strictly for backup and have not needed to use it. We do start it occasionally to make sure it works.

 

[Irish Rambler]

I had all these problems and used several gennies but found them limited and annoying noise for both myself and neighbours.
I took a different approach and fitted a larger alternator with an Adverc alternator controller, solar panels and reduced wattage consumption on all things electrical.


I have a 4 KW inverter which drives a 1KW water heater(when not cruising) an 850 watt kettle etc.
My approach is to reduce wattage, reduce consumption whilst keeping maximum comfort.

 

[psneeld]

I'm talking standard best practice, but yes your use case may be exceptional, like if you only run loads while the sun is high in the sky.

Just know between 50-80% an AGM 200AH bank might accept that 60A in 30 minutes.

But getting from 95% to true 100% Full, the last 10 Amps will take 2-3 hours, because toward the end the bank can't accept more than a 1-3A charge rate.

If the solar isn't getting to the 100% point, you might only need 30 min or an hour genny charging in the AM.

But "topping up" end of the day you're wasting the vast majority of your fuel.

Unless running the genny for other purposes anyway, doing laundry or something.


How Fast Can an AGM Battery Be Charged..? Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

......"best practice"?...there is none that I know of.

For that, certain things must exist...

Few boats are set up exactly the same, like I dont have AGMS, nor will probably ever own them. Plus dc usage at different times of the day. All sorts of variables your "best practice" doesnt cover for "real cruising" issues.

PLUS if closely read, I did say I derated the charger to accomodate the Honda 1000 because my big genny is awaiting parts.

My guess, like a lot of info tossed out on this forum, read somewhere, not applicable in all cases, not fully understood or learned from experience.

 

[Al]

We have the generator strictly for backup and have not needed to use it. We do start it occasionally to make sure it works.

Good catch Bob, Yes, with the 'Corn' in the gasoline it doesn't take long befor the varnish it causes, to plug up the small jets in the Honda.

 

[psneeld]

I hope everyone knows varnish is not an ethanol issue, actually just the opposite.

We used to add ethanol to cut varnish deposits and remove water.

When ethanol fuel first came out, it removed so much varnish from old fuel systems, many of my tows were because of plugged fuel filters.

It is phase separation from free water in fuel systems that makes ethanol a disaster.