Honda portable generator?

[diver dave]

I hope everyone knows varnish is not an ethanol issue, actually just the opposite.

We used to add ethanol to cut varnish deposits and remove water.

When ethanol fuel first came out, it removed so much varnish from old fuel systems, many of my tows were because of plugged fuel filters.

It is phase separation from free water in fuel systems that makes ethanol a disaster.

Exactly correct. And if you use bio-diesel, same issue with its affinity to water. Petro diesel can hold orders of magnitude less water.
Ie: if you pour a gallon of water into your large bio-diesel tank, it may not sit at the bottom of the tank.

 

[psneeld]

For those that worry about phase separation, my research found the EPA is convinced water vapor does not cause it, only liquid water. So watch for leaks or access by fills or vents that can let water into the tank.

 

[john61ct]

Worst case, add some Stabil, good for 6+ months

Best to just run the genny empty before storing.

Even better, convert to propane, motor last longer too (break in on petrol first).

 

[psneeld]

Stabil does nothing for phase separation....only varnishing .

Propane is a PIA at best for a normal cruiser who carries gas for other reasons and dingies that go fast for long distances.

Motor, if it last longer on propane, I would love to see the study.

My Honda 1000 runs on gas, has been used and abused by my son and I for 20 years, zero maintenance except for oil changes. Like to see a study that shows otherwise.

 

[diver dave]

For those that worry about phase separation, my research found the EPA is convinced water vapor does not cause it, only liquid water. So watch for leaks or access by fills or vents that can let water into the tank.

I just read the EPA paper. Do they realize that water saturated in a gas mixture will fall out as liquid when the temperature drops??

Did i miss something? They totally ignored that. They only concentrated their thinking on the limit to vapor absorption at a given temperature.

 

[HopCar]

I don't think running a small engine until it runs out of fuel is enough to prevent varnish from building up in the fuel system.

Honda recommends draining the carb and fuel pump for long term storage.
Here is a very good video by Honda on how to do it.

 

[psneeld]

Running it out of gas seems to work on both my Honda genset and Yamaha 8, 4 atroke outboard.

Maybe I am kidding myself, buut has worked for almost 20 years in the Honda and 5 years in the outboard.

Only this year did I start using Stabil.

 

[C lectric]

My '85 1,000W Yamaha generator and my '94 Yamaha outboard are run on premium, no ethanol gas. I use either Seafoam or Startron , although have used Stabil, in the fuel.

However I also run the things out of gas otherwise it's carb. tear down time much too often.
I expect I will have to strip them to de varnish someday but instead of every year it's now been over 8 yrs.

 

[john61ct]

Where do you buy your no-ethanol gas? How much does it cost per gallon?

 

[AKDoug]

I was having trouble with my chain saw, the dealer said old fuel was a big issue and that regular gas didn't store as well as Premium. He also stated that Stihl sells cans of Premium gas for use in their saws and other gas powered tools. If you can't find it anywhere else you might look at a Stihl dealership...

In Alaska we don't have ethanol in our gasoline, lucky us!

 

[FlyWright]

Thanks for that video, HC!

There's a little known Honda eu2000i trick. When the rotating off switch is selected, it does 2 things....stop the spark and turn off the fuel. If you slide off the spark control wire terminal, it renders the spark control circuit inop so when you rotate the OFF switch, it turns off the fuel while the spark continues. The unit runs for a minute or so then empties the carb. No need to catch the discarded fuel.

There's a Youtube video somewhere on this...

 

[FF]

"Where do you buy your no-ethanol gas? How much does it cost per gallon?"

Gas stations that have it advertise the fact in boating areas.

Small airports have non poisoned gas but at big prices.

Emptying the gas system , running it out of gas seems to work better than adding chemicals and praying.

 

[HopCar]

I'm having trouble with my Honda EU 2000i. I tried to start it a few days before hurricane Irma hit. It wouldn't run without some choke. I figured the carb was dirty. Didn't have time to deal with cleaning it so I just bought a whole new carb.

Still wouldn't run without some choke.

Finally got some time to work on it today. I cleaned the spark arrester and the fuel filter. By the way cleaning the fuel filter is a major PITA.

It runs great, at half choke!

You guys got any ideas?

 

[Irish Rambler]

I know you guys are going to laugh at this but it's from my own personal experience over the years with various outboards, gensets and chain saws.
Obviously you must use fresh fuel, (any clean old fuel can be put into a gas car tank to be burnt off).
Being careful of spills take the unit, turn it upside down and give it a damn good shake, turn it back and try again.
Sometimes its just a sticking needle/float switch.
If you spray of Easystart direct into the carb inlet it will clean any varnish or gum deposits.
With the engine running, intermittently spray LIGHTLY into the inlet 6 to 8
times it will clean the carb.
If it won't start get a companion to VERY LIGHTLY spray Easystart while turning over the motor.
If that doesn't work it's time to get out the toolbox for a deep inspection.

 

[C lectric]

I'm having trouble with my Honda EU 2000i. I tried to start it a few days before hurricane Irma hit. It wouldn't run without some choke. I figured the carb was dirty. Didn't have time to deal with cleaning it so I just bought a whole new carb.

Still wouldn't run without some choke.

Finally got some time to work on it today. I cleaned the spark arrester and the fuel filter. By the way cleaning the fuel filter is a major PITA.

It runs great, at half choke!

You guys got any ideas?

Air leak ? Maybe a new mounting gasket is needed.

 

[HopCar]

Air leak ? Maybe a new mounting gasket is needed.

You may be on to something. I'll get a new carb gasket. I can't remember if I changed it when I put the new carb on or not.
Thanks!

 

[wwestman]

You may be on to something. I'll get a new carb gasket. I can't remember if I changed it when I put the new carb on or not.
Thanks!

If you took the carb off and did not change the gasket that may be part of the problem. There are two jets that need to be cleaned when you clean the carb. Did you change the spark plug? And did you clean the fuel strainer in the bottom of the tank?

Any of those will cause issues.

 

[FF]

"I just read the EPA paper. Do they realize that water saturated in a gas mixture will fall out as liquid when the temperature drops??

Did i miss something? They totally ignored that. They only concentrated their thinking on the limit to vapor absorption at a given temperature."

You expect a Gov agency to not paper over ethanol as a very bad choice for gas engines?

The Pres Primaries are all in farm states,

 

[HopCar]

If you took the carb off and did not change the gasket that may be part of the problem. There are two jets that need to be cleaned when you clean the carb. Did you change the spark plug? And did you clean the fuel strainer in the bottom of the tank?

Any of those will cause issues.

Yes I changed the plug and cleaned that damn fuel strainer in the bottom of the tank. That was a btch to get to. I didn't clean the carb, I bought a new one.

A friend picked up the new carb for me. If the gasket didn't come with the carb, he wouldn't have know to buy one and I would have tried to reuse the old one.

 

[catalinajack]

Good catch Bob, Yes, with the 'Corn' in the gasoline it doesn't take long befor the varnish it causes, to plug up the small jets in the Honda.

Use some Seafoam. Varnish not a problem.

 

[diver dave]

Small airports have non poisoned gas but at big prices.

Of course, 100LL has significant lead content. Fine for Honda gen, bad for Honda Accord!

"I just read the EPA paper. Do they realize that water saturated in a gas mixture will fall out as liquid when the temperature drops??

Did i miss something? They totally ignored that. They only concentrated their thinking on the limit to vapor absorption at a given temperature."

You expect a Gov agency to not paper over ethanol as a very bad choice for gas engines?

The Pres Primaries are all in farm states,

Very true! I realize that the EPA is not only into car fuel vapor control, but also boat fuel vapor control. So, cars usually don't have water going into the vent, since its such a convoluted path to actually vent a car fuel tank. Solenoids, little hoses, activ. charcoal, sealed caps, etc etc. Most boats have a large hose going a short distance to a big hole to the atmosphere. Seems to have lots more opportunity for the alcohol to bond with H2O and fall to the bottom of the tank when saturated and the temp drops. All magic has its price. You trade elimination of varnish production for all the issues with alcohol.

 

[catalinajack]

"Where do you buy your no-ethanol gas? How much does it cost per gallon?"

Gas stations that have it advertise the fact in boating areas.

Small airports have non poisoned gas but at big prices.

Emptying the gas system , running it out of gas seems to work better than adding chemicals and praying.

Get an app called "Pure Gas". It provides, state-by-state, the locations that sell non-ethanol. I bought some (90 octane) at a marina in Easton, MD in July for $4/gal. A nearby gas station had it for $5/gal. Pump gas (87 octane) was selling for about $2.30 at the time.

As for avgas, it's 100LL, which means it's leaded. The manual for my new Suzuki O/B recommends only unleaded fuel. Avgas at Lee Airport in Edgewater, MD is presently $5.50 per gallon.

Another alternative is Sunoco Optima (95 octane unleaded). It's available at some Sunoco stations in five-gallon pails but is very expensive, about $10/gal. However, it is formulated specifically for small engines and has a shelf life of three years.

 

[stubones99]

Here in the South, WAWA has ethanol free gas

Where do you buy your no-ethanol gas? How much does it cost per gallon?

As of this morning, the WAWA gas station in Pineda Crossing had Ethanol free gas for $2.99.9 a gallon. compared to $2.27 a gallon for leadfree regular gas.

https://www.wawa.com/fuel

Most walmarts also carry ethanol free gas at $9.99 a gallon in the lawn mower section. They have 1 gallon cans near their roto-molded gas cans.

 

[Seevee]

FWIW,
You can get non ethanol at most marinas. Wawa also carries it.

But for the Honda (and other power toys, pressure washer, etc), aviation 100LL works great. And it will not break down and deteriorate like both the ethanol and non ethanol will, and you won't have to worry about the carb gumming up.

And there's many airports that sell it in the low of $3.50 to high of $4.50 unless you go to a high end airport. And lots sell it by self serve, so easy to get. But might have to tell someone that you're building a plane in your yard.

Also, Sea Form works pretty good too. Use it in the diesel and gas boats.

 

[psneeld]

You guys worry too much.

I have been using pretty much all ethanol gas in my stuff and business stuff for going on 8 years now. One time problem leaving gas in my outboard carb for 4 or 5 months. And not sure if it was ethanol related or just varnish.

My crew leaves her car sit for 6 months with ethanol gas and it gets started and run maybe 3 times in that period. No issues.

Stop worrying, do some basics and you will be fine with ethanol....unless you let a pretty good slug of water get in it, then all bets are off.

 

[wwestman]

Yes I changed the plug and cleaned that damn fuel strainer in the bottom of the tank. That was a btch to get to. I didn't clean the carb, I bought a new one.

A friend picked up the new carb for me. If the gasket didn't come with the carb, he wouldn't have know to buy one and I would have tried to reuse the old one.

Surprisingly or maybe not, the replacement carbs do not come with the needed gasket. Go figure.

 

[Delfin]

You guys worry too much.

I have been using pretty much all ethanol gas in my stuff and business stuff for going on 8 years now. One time problem leaving gas in my outboard carb for 4 or 5 months. And not sure if it was ethanol related or just varnish.

My crew leaves her car sit for 6 months with ethanol gas and it gets started and run maybe 3 times in that period. No issues.

Stop worrying, do some basics and you will be fine with ethanol....unless you let a pretty good slug of water get in it, then all bets are off.

Well, not so much. It depends on whether the engine was designed to be used with E10 or E15 gas, and most small gas engines are not. Don't take my word for it, but perhaps listen to the people who would rather not have customers coming back complaining that the lawn mower they just purchased won't run anymore.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/know-...ol-and-its-effects-on-outdoor-power-equipment

Or perhaps Consumer Reports: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro...ethanol-can-make-small-engines-fail/index.htm

Ethanol free gas is available from most Union 76 stations that I encounter in Washington State at around a $.50 premium.

 

[psneeld]

Well in my world of ethanol gas, not many people are having the problems described no matter what old little engines they have.

They have learned to live with the phase separation and probably got rid of their pre 1980 engines ehen most have components that survive E10 just fine as the ethanol level isvusually much lower than the advertised level.

OK, havent had to feal with E15 yet, that cold be a different story...but still havent seen one pump selling it in the Mid Atlantic stayes which were some of the first that I know of to go all E10.

 

[Maerin]

Well in my world of ethanol gas, not many people are having the problems described no matter what old little engines they have.

They have learned to live with the phase separation and probably got rid of their pre 1980 engines ehen most have components that survive E10 just fine as the ethanol level isvusually much lower than the advertised level.

OK, havent had to feal with E15 yet, that cold be a different story...but still havent seen one pump selling it in the Mid Atlantic stayes which were some of the first that I know of to go all E10.

Cars since the 80's have used sealed fuel systems, they're unaffected by ethanol since they limit fuel exposure to ambient air. Marine outboards & small gas engines with vented tanks can absorb moisture that causes phase separation & fouls carbs with orange snot. The smaller the displacement of the engine, the tinier the fuel passages & the greater chance of fouling. If I run ethanol in my 15hp Yamaha, I WILL BE tearing the carb down to clean it. It's a given. Ethanol has no business being in marine applications. No benefit whatsoever, even dangerous. How come they don't use it in aircraft?
Here on the east coast, non-ethanol is usually available in marinas, except in Balto. co where it can't be sold. Just Dumb.

 

[diver dave]

Cars since the 80's have used sealed fuel systems, they're unaffected by ethanol since they limit fuel exposure to ambient air. .

sealed is a bit of a strong word here. I'd say maybe a long path is involved, but not sealed. Atmospheric air replaces all the gas you burn. so, perhaps somewhere between "free-breathing" and "isolated".

I just did some EVAP fixing on my Toyota. About every 10 minutes, the fuel vent is shut off using a solenoid. At that point, engine vacuum is applied to the tank. Then that is shut off. Over 30 seconds time, a vacuum sensor is monitored to check for a vacuum reduction. Then the CEL comes on if its not happy with the result. And, then the system is opened again. But even when "open" , the path is not particuarly short and wide.