high amp alternator for Perkins 4-154

[Billylll]

Can someone point me to the correct BalMar or equivalent high amperage alternator that will bolt on the Perkins 4-154? I have the standard 45 amp 12VDC alternators on the boat now. I'd like at least 70 amps without having to change the belt style. Can someone give me the correct model and part numbers for a drop in high amperage 12VDC alternator to replace the factory unit. I plan on using the smart controller and temperature monitor as well.
The vessel is a 1976 Gulfstar 36' Mark II.
Thanks,
Bill

 

[sunchaser]

As a Balmar alternative - For the past decade or so Perkins Sabre has used Prestolite as standard issue. Mine are 90 amp 12V units and have been trouble free. Last time I looked lots of Prestolite choices at very good prices. They've been in business for over 100 years.

 

[Billylll]

Do you have a model number for the Prestolite alternator that you are using?
Thanks for the advice.
Bill

 

[FlyWright]

BillyIII, I'm not sure about your 4.154, but here are some links that might help.

http://balmar.net/PDF/seven-series-alternators.pdf

http://balmar.net/PDF/2010-Balmar-alternator-manual-web.pdf

Mine uses the 2 inch spindle Delco style as described here on page 4.

http://balmar.net/2012-PRODUCT-GUIDE-WEB.pdf

I have a 7 series still sitting in its box (I believe it's the 712-110) with the MC-614 external smart regulator to install on mine. It requires a 1/2 inch belt width. If your belt is 3/8 inch, there's a 712-80, rated at 80A.

Have you considered having your existing alternator rewired to increase its output to 75A and skipping the external regulator?

 

[Billylll]

Thanks for the information Al. I'll look at the links and way various options.
I don't know the size belts on the current 4-154's. Looks like I better find out. I would prefer the 3 stage charge controllers because one engine will be charging a larger AGM battery bank.
Bill

 

[FlyWright]

Here's what I've got on there now.

Here's what I'll mount.

 

[Billylll]

Thanks Al it looks like the standard mount is the 2" foot is that correct?
Thanks,
Bill

 

[FlyWright]

Billy, I think so, but I don't have the experience to know it. According to Balmar, the 2 inch single foot Delco style is a Perkins compatible model. But I know very little about alternators...so little that I'm still staring at this alternator in its box instead of installing it on my boat! I'm thinking I'll need a professional to help me install this thing right the first time.

 

[Billylll]

I am also asking for assistance Al, my Tach signals come off the alternators on my Gulfstar 4-154 Perkins diesels.
Bill

 

[FF]

In most cases changing the Alt is a R&R task .

The same wires go to the same terminals , although in a few cases the output wire will need replacing with a more robust (thicker) wire .

If having a local assist be sure the field current is wired thru the small posts on the rear of your rotary switch.

This will save the alt if somehow the batts are turned OFF while the engine is ON.

 

[Billylll]

In most cases changing the Alt is a R&R task .

The same wires go to the same terminals , although in a few cases the output wire will need replacing with a more robust (thicker) wire .

If having a local assist be sure the field current is wired thru the small posts on the rear of your rotary switch.

This will save the alt if somehow the batts are turned OFF while the engine is ON.

In my case the wire is sized for the standard 45 amp alternators. I'm not sure if it's much larger than a #8. That's fairly small I'm used to seeing at a minimum #1 coming from the alternator. I always go a couple of sizes up figuring any heat lost in wire is lost voltage or current to the devices it feeds. I tend to go overboard with sizing my DC wiring. I'm hoping to get 70 amp alternators to replace the 45 amp standard units the boat's currently equipped with.
Bill

 

[Irish Rambler]

As a newbie may I respectfully make the following suggestion based on my own experience.
The maximum size of alternator for a single belt 'V' pulley is 110 amp and a 4 stage alternator controller is the best for increasing efficiency and prolonging your battery life.
I would recommend that you contact Advercusa.com for all the latest technical details on battery charging and management as the pace of change is rapid, many systems have been 'modified' by previous owners and if your going to change the alternator why not go the whole hog and do the job right ?
Draw a wiring diagram, laminate it and put it in your service file as we tend to forget specs over time and it's nice to have it in a waterproof/wipe clean covering in case you ever need to 'get down and dirty' another time.
I have no connection with this company other than being a satisfied user for 20 years.
Just as an aside, Prestolite and Balmar alternators spares in Europe are as rare as rocking horse manure so anyone planning to cruise Europe needs to take a replacement. Bosch and Valeo spares are freely available anywhere.
Time spent on reconnaissance is never wasted.

 

[Brent Hodges]

You've gotten a lot of guess's here, but just call Balmar and they will tell you all your options for your exact engine. I've installed several Balmar's on several Perkins engines. I think the last one I did was on that model engine, but don't remember for sure. You should be able to put at least an 80 amp, if not 100. I've done several 100 amp models on a single 1/2" belt. They sell kits with alt, regulator, bat and alt temp sensors as some savings. Call them at 360-435-6100. Try to talk to Steve or Dale if you can.
This will NOT be a plug and play. You'll need to upgrade both the positive and negative cable to the alternator. Most of the Balmars are Isolated Grounds, so you need to run a size matching ground wire. For a 100 amp model, if the run isn't over a few feet, #2 cable will more than likely be large enough. The stock cables are almost always too small.
Disclaimer, I do work for a service company that is a dealer for Balmar, as well as others. I've installed lots of alternators, and I have Balmar on my own boat.

 

[FF]

The KEY to getting better boat charging is the Voltage regulator .

A fantastic output alt with a std car/truck boat/ engine V reg will do little better than stock.

The first improvement might simply be to replace the V reg for an intelligent unit.

 

[Billylll]

I thought I had previously mentioned the need for a multi-stage smart regulator? The reason I'd like to pick 70 amps over anything higher, less strain on the V belt and there would be no need to modify the V belt system. I'm looking for modest smart charging from each engine. Possibly using a "center fielder" to combine both engines alternators if needed.
Thanks
Bill

 

[Brent Hodges]

The Balmar regulator will let you "detune" the alternator, and there is very little cost difference in an 80 vs a 100 amp model. You can set it up to put any output from something like 20% to 100%. My advice would be to buy the 100 amp model, and if it seems hard on the belt, detune it to 70 or 80%.

 

[Billylll]

The Balmar regulator will let you "detune" the alternator, and there is very little cost difference in an 80 vs a 100 amp model. You can set it up to put any output from something like 20% to 100%. My advice would be to buy the 100 amp model, and if it seems hard on the belt, detune it to 70 or 80%.

Great idea, now I just need the part numbers for my Perkins 4.154M I'll need the smart regulator and alternator part numbers.
Bill

 

[Brent Hodges]

Just call Balmar, and they will tell you the individual numbers and the kit number for what you need. Then you can shop around for the best price.

 

[FlyWright]

The Balmar regulator will let you "detune" the alternator, and there is very little cost difference in an 80 vs a 100 amp model. You can set it up to put any output from something like 20% to 100%. My advice would be to buy the 100 amp model, and if it seems hard on the belt, detune it to 70 or 80%.

Good advice! You'll need to know your belt size to know what to expect from that alternator.

 

[Billylll]

Great advice the belts were just replaced during the engine maintenance I had done prior to the sea trial or purchase. The boat sat for 4 years and I didn't want to ruin perfectly good motors from sitting. I also had the fuel polished and the tank cleaned. The fuel ended up being so bad it was evacuated disposed of and the boat now has 50 or so gallons in it's diesel tank. Impellers were also changed on all 3 engines (the 3rd being the genset). I have a unique Westerbeke the AC power is only 4.4kw AC but it has a 50 amp 12VDC alternator on it as well. This will make a good back up charging source if I properly wire it to a high current ACR and route it through a 4 position BlueSea battery switch. I'll upgrade the wiring size on the alternators.
I will get the belt size and contact BalMar for the high amp alternator and the external charge controller.
Thanks,
Bill

 

[Brent Hodges]

Some details coming back to me. On the one I did recently, I had to drill out the foot adapter a small amount on the new alternator. The original had something like a 3/8 bolt, but the Balmar was a metric size just under the 3/8. Put the adapter in a vise and drilled it out another 1/32 or so. I also seem to remember the stock alternator had the positive output and a ground (both too small for the new alternator) and two small wires. One was tach output and the other was the on/off trigger for the alternator. You'll use the tach wire through the new regulator. I used the original on/off trigger wire to power the on/off for the new regulator. Just read the instructions for the new alt and regulator and it will walk you through all the details.

 

[FF]

>One was tach output and the other was the on/off trigger for the alternator. You'll use the tach wire through the new regulator. I used the original on/off trigger wire to power the on/off for the new regulator. Just read the instructions for the new alt and regulator and it will walk you through all the details.<

In most instals the >trigger< wire is wired to the back of the rotary switch (to save the alt from an idiot) , powered from the key switch , its the Field wire.

The tach wire usually goes to the tach .

.> Just read the instructions for the new alt and regulator and it will walk you through all the details.<

Good advise indeed!

******

Most proper battery charging is done at the C/10 rating.

A bat of 100A rating (20 hour rate) would be charged at 10A

If its down to the 50%SOC it will take 3 hours to get to 80% and many many more to get to 100%, so is seldom done unless dockside , solar or LOOOng engine hours are done.

This means a good 40A alt will maintain 400A of batteries (about 400lbs worth).

A 70A could charge 700A , 700 lbs of batts .

This is for WLA , wet lead acid batts , what most have .

By doubling the batt cost with AGM a higher charge rate can be maintained.

Big alternators may or may not result in a quicker charge for most folks..

 

[Billylll]

I'm using initially 420AH using DEKA's Unigy1 105AH AGM batteries. I have a total of 8 but I am hoping to keep the house bank limited to about 400lbs. By using my Wind generator and 400 watts of MPPT controlled solar I'm hoping the alternative charging will be all that will be needed. Meaning I may stick with the dual 45 amp alternators. My Westerbeke generator can produce 50 amps from it's DC alternator if needed I'll use a BlueSea either 60 or 120 amp ACR to get power to the house bank from the generator if needed.
Bill

 

[FF]

Most alt ratings are BS .

IF you pay enough you can purchase an alt that will acctually put out its rated current when HOT.

Most boat alts come from the car parts bin so expect 29% ot more less output than rated , even with a Smart V regulator.

THe biggest user of power is usually the reefer, it pays well to go expensive and efficient , if you like the hook lifestyle.

 

[Billylll]

Most alt ratings are BS .

IF you pay enough you can purchase an alt that will acctually put out its rated current when HOT.

Most boat alts come from the car parts bin so expect 29% ot more less output than rated , even with a Smart V regulator.

THe biggest user of power is usually the reefer, it pays well to go expensive and efficient , if you like the hook lifestyle.

:
You won't get any debate from me about alternator outputs, ratings and temperatures affects on the output produced.
Bill