Heat Shrink waterproof wire connectors

[kchace]

No solder on the boat. No silicone on the boat. No bananas on the boat. With so many things banned from the boat how come my boat is full of so much crap?

I guess you have to ban more stuff....

 

[OldDan1943]

No solder on the boat. No silicone on the boat. No bananas on the boat. With so many things banned from the boat how come my boat is full of so much crap?

Spare parts, booze, those cans of SPAM (just in case) and those ladies you have stashed the bilges, for those cold winters' nights?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. fb. "...how come my boat is full of so much crap?" If your speaking literally, I suggest you check your holding tank vent for blockages...Just sayin'

 

[Lepke]

I soldier all my connectors. I went to soldier seal connectors that have the shrink tubing and soldier in the connector. Using a small torch or heat gun, you shrink the tubing first to hold everything, and then apply heat to the soldier. It's lower temp soldier and flows easy. On Amazon or eBay.

 

[dhays]

I soldier all my connectors. I went to soldier seal connectors that have the shrink tubing and soldier in the connector. Using a small torch or heat gun, you shrink the tubing first to hold everything, and then apply heat to the soldier. It's lower temp soldier and flows easy. On Amazon or eBay.

What do you use to apply the heat to the solder and where is it applied? If it low enough temp that a heat gun melts the solder I would be concerned about the stability of the joint compared to a typical crimp connector?

 

[kchace]

I soldier all my connectors. I went to soldier seal connectors that have the shrink tubing and soldier in the connector. Using a small torch or heat gun, you shrink the tubing first to hold everything, and then apply heat to the soldier. It's lower temp soldier and flows easy. On Amazon or eBay.

Have you used them much and did you test them for strength and water tightness? I'm not sure if those are the same as the set I tested or if the ones I tested were an inferior knockoff, but the ones I tested were not good. I'm wondering now if I got a cheap copy?

Ken

 

[Xsbank]

This is great, in 5 years or so when you’ve all sold your boats there will be a flurry of new “PO” posts here about how all this crap soldered wiring needed to be pulled out!

 

[localboy]

They are very difficult to get the solder to flow correctly even under otherwise perfect conditions with brand new tinned wire.

My experience too. I tried both a heat gun and a butane torch. One not hot enough to get the solders flowing. The other too hot and damaged the shrink. As I said, I cut it off and used a crimped connector.

 

[Maerin]

I soldier all my connectors. I went to soldier seal connectors that have the shrink tubing and soldier in the connector. Using a small torch or heat gun, you shrink the tubing first to hold everything, and then apply heat to the soldier. It's lower temp soldier and flows easy. On Amazon or eBay.

So, what's the big advantage? Soldered connections do not meet ABYC standards except under a very few specific applications, and not the applications for which these devices are designed, so why use them? You can create a superior termination with proven crimp technology, why use a method that's proven to be inferior and won't meet marine standards?? :Headscratch: I just don't get it.

 

[Comodave]

I don’t understand either. It is simple to make a good approved connection so why go with this? I wouldn’t want to buy the boat filled with this “stuff”,to put it nicely. What if you go to sell the boat and the buyer gets a really good surveyor that catches these connections?

 

[firstbase]

This is great, in 5 years or so when you’ve all sold your boats there will be a flurry of new “PO” posts here about how all this crap soldered wiring needed to be pulled out!

It's the Circle of Life XS (Lion King music playing in the background). Insurance that TF is alive and well for years to come.

I think you are all crazy because, as any truly educated owner such as myself knows, Wire Nuts are where it's at. The wave of the future.

 

[Comodave]

Yes, my boat had some wire nuts in it when I bought it. I have done a bunch of electrical repairs. My boat has 2 30 amp inlets but it only had 1 30 amp main breaker... But that was from the factory since I inspected another boat like mine and it was wired the same way.

 

[OldDan1943]

Yes, my boat had some wire nuts in it when I bought it. I have done a bunch of electrical repairs. My boat has 2 30 amp inlets but it only had 1 30 amp main breaker... But that was from the factory since I inspected another boat like mine and it was wired the same way.

Is that one breaker identified as 30amp

 

[Comodave]

Yes, it was. The second 30 amp was directly wired to the main bus. I found a Carver last month from the 1980s that was wired just like that also.

 

[psneeld]

Pretty sure ABYC isn't against soldering so much as long as it is not the only form of connection (ie: needs a secondary mechanical connection such as crimping, linemans splice, etc....even just adhesive may meet the requirement if it meets the pull test)... and the whole thing is properly supported.


Also pretty sure the soldered connections are discussed in the NASA performance spec sheets so they aren't against them ether.


And while I think the standard crimps are easiest in may situations...I just think if standards are to be met, they are totally understood and why.

 

[OldDan1943]

Yes, it was. The second 30 amp was directly wired to the main bus. I found a Carver last month from the 1980s that was wired just like that also.

If the boat was in compliance when built, I guess everything is fine and acceptable.

 

[Comodave]

No, it wasn’t fine. There was no overcurrent protection on one of the inlets. Since a lot of boat fires start in the area of shore power inlets it could very possibly be a cause of a fire.

 

[rbcooper]

heat shrink solder type connectors

Ok, I bought a "kit" of these like others on the forum. I never intended these as a replacement for anything that would take any significant load but instead as a replacement for crimp connectors used on "instrumentation" type wires used in integrating devices together. Like those sub 22 G wires manufacturers use in their wiring for NMEA 0183 devices. I've not used these for that but know that the crimp type connectors leave a bunch to be desired. I usually use a screw terminal block for these but that means enclosing same in some sort of water proof box. I thought that with proper strain relief in these types of applications this might work. Anyone tried this? and if so what type of strain relief did you come up with?

RB Cooper

 

[Comodave]

The really small wires are a PITA to make connections. I usually use a pink connector and spcut a very short piece of copper wire. Put the small wire along with the extra wire in the connector and crimp it. Then heat shrink it and squeeze the end of the shrink and seal the end up. Not ideal. Does anyone have a really good way?

 

[localboy]

On really small gauge wire (22, 24, 26) like that used for gauges, dash lights etc, I've used these:


https://www.posi-products.com/positwist.html

https://www.posi-products.com/posilock.html

 

[Comodave]

Boating Magazine Pull Test

In the July issue Boating Magazine they did a test of the self solder and seal connectors. They addressed them again in the November issue that arrived at my home today. The point was brought up that solder is not allowed to be the sole connection per ABYC recommendations. 16 gauge wire must be able to hold a 15 pound pull and 10 gauge must hold a 40 pound pull. They tested these connectors and found that 16 gauge held 7 pounds and the 10 gauge held 17.5 pounds, both less than 1/2 of the required pulls. They tested Ancor crimp connectors and found 16 held 42 pounds and 10 gauge held 90 pounds. They pulled their original test results from their web site, basically unendorsing the connectors. Maybe this will (or won’t) convince the people that want to use these???

 

[rbcooper]

On really small gauge wire (22, 24, 26) like that used for gauges, dash lights etc, I've used these:


https://www.posi-products.com/positwist.html

https://www.posi-products.com/posilock.html

Localboy,

The source doesn't say anything about being water proof. Any problem with corrosion with these?

RB Cooper

 

[Seevee]

I could argue to only use quality terminals. I've had great luck with the Ancor heat shrink, crimp terminals..... work great. But expensive.



Anyone have other quality recommendations?

 

[Comodave]

I only use Ancor brand. There maybe other quality ones out there but every time I have tried a different brand I end up sending them back. I buy them in boxes of 100 so they are more reasonable that way. In the scheme of a boat, they aren’t really a significant difference in price.

 

[diver dave]

No, it wasn’t fine. There was no overcurrent protection on one of the inlets. Since a lot of boat fires start in the area of shore power inlets it could very possibly be a cause of a fire.

There most certainly is OCP upstream; it exists at the pedestal. The marine problem is this use of t's, Y's, etc that may connect a 30A boat inlet to a 50A receptacle. Now, that's a problem, that is solved by the boat 30A inlet breaker.

 

[Vashon_Trawler]

Not sure a Western Union splice satisfys ABYC mechanical requirement (should)...some experts do and then this would be fine if you are confident the solder is really doing it's job.


From Wikipedia...


However, when examined in tensile strength ("pull") tests by NASA on 16 and 22 AW gauge wire, even the short tie variation of the Western Union splice performed well after soldering: when spliced and soldered carefully to standard instructions, the test splices never failed at the splice (instead breaking outside of the splice area), leaving NASA to conclude that "the solder connection at the splice was as strong or stronger than the un-spliced wires."[2][3]

I am a ham radio operator who builds his own wire antenna arrays and equipment and am very familiar with the Western Union Splice. I am not surprised by the NASA results. I have several low band dipole antennas with WU splices and the copper wire would break well before the splice. I don't see anything wrong with a soldered WU splice covered with quality marine shrink tubing. It will be more durable and far stronger than any butt connection!

 

[Comodave]

There most certainly is OCP upstream; it exists at the pedestal. The marine problem is this use of t's, Y's, etc that may connect a 30A boat inlet to a 50A receptacle. Now, that's a problem, that is solved by the boat 30A inlet breaker.

Well in a previous boat, I found stray A/C current in the bilge water. In troubleshooting I found the inlet was overheated and further looking found charred wood and charred wiring caused by the inlet resistance. If that inlet had been on this boat without an inlet breaker it may have been a much bigger problem. That is why ABYC recommendations include a main breaker within 10’ of the inlet and my current boat didn’t have one on the second shore power inlet. It does now! I have found other boats, 1 a Carver, that didn’t have a breaker on the second shore power inlet. It is amazing what even some reputable builders do in electrical. And these were from the builders that way.

 

[diver dave]

Yep, lots of sins out there from various sources. I would caution on the ability of a magnetic/thermal circuit breaker to protect from connection overheat issues. Unless the actual current drain exceeds the breaker specs, it won't likely trip. Now, there are thermal protection fuse links AT the power inlet that are better positioned to protect against the corroded connection risk.
I won't say you need a Smart power connector to be safe, but read this from them:

The 30 Amp Inlet contains a trip thermostat which cuts power in the
unlikely event of overheating. It’s set to trip at 200ºF (93ºC) - just before
wire insulation begins to soften - and restore the power once it has
cooled back down to a safe temperature of around 120ºF (49ºC).

 

[kchace]

The really small wires are a PITA to make connections. I usually use a pink connector and spcut a very short piece of copper wire. Put the small wire along with the extra wire in the connector and crimp it. Then heat shrink it and squeeze the end of the shrink and seal the end up. Not ideal. Does anyone have a really good way?

I don't think I've seen instrument wires smaller than 24. A pink/red splice connector is good for 18-22. So for something like 24, I remove double the insulation and fold the exposed wire in half. This fills the crimp connector enough to get a solid crimp. If smaller than 24, one may need to go to the next size smaller crimp connector which is 22-26 and is yellow. Of course you'd also need a crimper sized for these.



Ken

 

[Comodave]

Yep, lots of sins out there from various sources. I would caution on the ability of a magnetic/thermal circuit breaker to protect from connection overheat issues. Unless the actual current drain exceeds the breaker specs, it won't likely trip. Now, there are thermal protection fuse links AT the power inlet that are better positioned to protect against the corroded connection risk.
I won't say you need a Smart power connector to be safe, but read this from them:

The 30 Amp Inlet contains a trip thermostat which cuts power in the
unlikely event of overheating. It’s set to trip at 200ºF (93ºC) - just before
wire insulation begins to soften - and restore the power once it has
cooled back down to a safe temperature of around 120ºF (49ºC).

I have Smart plugs now. I really like them, much more contact area. But unfortunately they don’t have the thermal cut out anymore due to the auto reset feature, there was concern that someone could think the power was off and start working on the electrical system and the thermal cut off could auto reset and restore power without the worker being aware or it and getting electrocuted. So they had to delete that feature. They are still worth having due to the increased contact area, easy plug in and positive locking.