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Old 02-21-2019, 07:19 AM   #1
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Which GPS module for an upgrade?

I've got an older Furuno MDF12 NavNet3D system. It's had a GP-320B connected to it via 0183. It's worked reasonably well, but the MFD12s have occasionally lost position fix. I'm guessing there were some other implementation issues that might have been involved with why that was happening. The GPS was feeding into one of the four plotters and exchanging data via Ethernet. I've discovered some 'past owner' wiring issues and am resolving those. That may or may not solve the position fix issue.

But if not, and for the sake of having GPS that's independent of being run through a plotter, what are people's current favorites for a GPS source to the NMEA-2000 bus? I don't want to break the bank on this, so getting a satellite compass isn't going to happen. What else out there is worth considering? Or perhaps what's out there that's worth AVOIDING?
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:23 AM   #2
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I have the gp33 and was really happy with it until I got the sc33 Even with the two on the network they seem to play nice with each other if you ever upgraded to a satellite compass in the future. I like the display on the gp33 too, great to keep an eye on SOG, etc.
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:52 AM   #3
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Heh, I'm hemorrhaging money on a whole other range of upgrades (like HVAC and possibly lithium batteries), so going with the SC33 & GP33 is really not gonna happen, tempting though it might be! That and I really don't need that kind of precision for how we generally use the boat.

But I am being careful with upgrades and device placements to avoid losing a useful spot to add something in the future. I'd love to have a spot to put a generic display, like a monitor or touchscreen for a PC. But with the current set of hardware there's really no good place to put it. I've seen folks put ones up on the valance but a previous owner spec'd the DC breaker panel right smack where such a thing would be convenient.

Now, I could just 'move those' but then it'd be a bunch of labor to splice everything and a new teak panel stained and varnished to match. I don't 'need' it that bad.

But I am leaning toward having the upper panel of the helm console redone. I want to add at least one Maretron DSM410 to replace an old B&G H1000. It's got a square hole and the round hole for the B&G is just low enough that cutting the square one for the Maretron won't be far enough up to free space below it for other stuff. I'm headed down there tomorrow to make some measurements and 'do some thinking'.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:01 AM   #4
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I want to add at least one Maretron DSM410 to replace an old B&G H1000.
Good decision....with a DSM410 on the panel, you can add a lot more electronic toys without a need for additional panel space.
https://www.maretron.com/products/dsm410.php

(Click on applications)
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:06 AM   #5
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I've got an older Furuno MDF12 NavNet3D system. It's had a GP-320B connected to it via 0183. It's worked reasonably well, but the MFD12s have occasionally lost position fix. I'm guessing there were some other implementation issues that might have been involved with why that was happening.

... what are people's current favorites for a GPS source to the NMEA-2000 bus? I don't want to break the bank on this, so getting a satellite compass isn't going to happen. What else out there is worth considering? Or perhaps what's out there that's worth AVOIDING?

We have the Furuno NN3D MFD12 and a 330B GPS antenna. Latter does both NMEA2000 (as in our installation) and NMEA0183. I can't remember ever having lost a fix in the last 10 years.

We also have an older GP-36 DGPS with a GPA-019 antenna (which used a NMEA0183 interface to one of our VHFs) and we've occasionally had some fix alarms with that pair, in a couple known places (mid-south Delaware Bay, for example). I suspect the fix alarm in those instances has been about interference on the land-based differential correction frequency.

It happens the display is going south (losing pixels) so I'm intending to maybe/probably? replace the display with a WAAS-corrected GP-39, same cut-out size. Furuno tells me I might be able to continue using the installed GPA-019, but if not I can replace that with the GPA-017 that comes included with the GP-39.

FWIW, we had some glitches with our ICOM 604 VHFs, so I recently replaced those with ICOM 605s... and both of those came with it's own tiny GPS receive antenna, and the 605s have both NMEA2000 and NMEA0183 interfaces.

If any of that helps...

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Old 02-21-2019, 09:08 AM   #6
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Good decision....with a DSM410 on the panel, you can add a lot more electronic toys without a need for additional panel space.
Thanks. The lower helm has two ancient H1000 display, but the upper has two relatively new B&G Triton2 displays. Though they're not as dynamic as the DSM410. I'm debating pulling one of the Triton's down and putting a 410 in it's place up top. This to allow using both helm stations in the same fashion.

That or since I currently only have one of the 410 displays I'm entertaining the idea of using one of their larger displays at the lower station and putting the 410 up top. The trick is finding enough area to fit everything.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:17 AM   #7
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We have the Furuno NN3D MFD12 and a 330B GPS antenna. Latter does both NMEA2000 (as in our installation) and NMEA0183. I can't remember ever having lost a fix in the last 10 years.
Can the GP-330B do both N2K and 0183 at the same time? The literature isn't entirely clear and I think there's two different cables. The connector under the puck has both, but I wasn't sure about both being usable at the same time. I don't plan, nor need, both, just wondering.

Quote:
We also have an older GP-36 DGPS with a GPA-019 antenna
Be aware that Furuno has noted some potential issues with the upcoming GPS week number rollover after April 6th 2019.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:25 AM   #8
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I love the DSM410 and now have a few around the boat, highly recommended. I’m even putting one on my new tender.

Could you put the display in the far starboard corner of the overhead? Once it’s on and you select a display you like there is little need to touch it again.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:27 AM   #9
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FWIW, we had some glitches with our ICOM 604 VHFs, so I recently replaced those with ICOM 605s... and both of those came with it's own tiny GPS receive antenna, and the 605s have both NMEA2000 and NMEA0183 interfaces.
I have an M602 and wanted to add a hailer... but that function won't work from the HM-157 Command Mic remote I have on the flybridge (which I bought last season to replace the HM-127 whose cord had fallen apart). So adding a simple $60 hailer speaker could turn into a whole other cascade of upgrades...

That's got potential for whole other potential discussion thread, so here it is:

Latest VHF choices to replace old Icom M602?
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:30 AM   #10
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I love the DSM410 and now have a few around the boat, highly recommended.
What am I missing here? Why do you have a few around the boat when one unit can display so many different data sources? Is it just a location thing such as salon, stateroom, ER, Etc?
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:47 AM   #11
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What am I missing here? Why do you have a few around the boat when one unit can display so many different data sources? Is it just a location thing such as salon, stateroom, ER, Etc?
Yes, pilothouse, salon (more focused on house stuff, no engine data), master stateroom (house info again), flybridge, and one yet unplaced, either tender or second one in pilothouse.
The bedside one is super helpful.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:58 AM   #12
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I love the DSM410 and now have a few around the boat, highly recommended. Iím even putting one on my new tender.
Our dinghy isn't fancy enough to have need for gauges. It's just an Avon 10' with a Yamaha 15 tiller on it.

Quote:
Could you put the display in the far starboard corner of the overhead? Once itís on and you select a display you like there is little need to touch it again.
I prefer having the data the 410 will display down in my 'scan the needles' line of sight. The valance area to the right could probably accommodate it, at least looking at it from the front. I seem to recall the space right behind there though.. there might be some framing in the way.

Replacing the B&G H1000's will also rid me of some interface boxes for them and cabling behind the console. One less bus and conversions to deal with.

I'm planning on a Summer addition of an anchor rode counter. That'll probably go in the center or port valance area. That and the starboard valance has a Computank system which is, surprisingly, still relatively accurate for fuel and water levels. That's also on the upgrade horizon. Two (combined) stainless water tanks, one poly waste tank and two diesel tanks.

The convenient thing is my boat guy has worked on several of these Eastbay 47 models, and has a sister ship right outside (Little Cat, formerly out of Virginia Beach). We're each benefiting from the knowledge gained doing upgrades to the other.

I'm considering putting a DSM410 down in the engine room. If just so I can get a heads up on various bits of data if I'm down there for anything. This is all heading toward having phone/tablet-WiFi access so a display down there might not be 'that important'. Upside is there's N2K bus near any of the locations that'd use it so installing it would be trivially simple.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:05 AM   #13
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Yes, pilothouse, salon (more focused on house stuff, no engine data), master stateroom (house info again), flybridge, and one yet unplaced, either tender or second one in pilothouse.
The bedside one is super helpful.
My 'Project Ideas' picture folder has just that, someone put a display near the forward berth.

I don't know how the slats are held onto the hull, or rather, what kind of effort it'd take to run the network to it. I've got N2K relatively close so it wouldn't be too much of a chore. Downside though is my wife prefers the berth to be dark as a tomb. Nothing with indicator lights or any kind of glow.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:18 AM   #14
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Here is my setup, both have easy power buttons, I ran alarm wires to piezos behind the display that can also be turned on and off. Alarm is off my tzt2 which I use for anchorwatch.

As far as the tender itís only in the last week and it still hasnít been delivered but the Honda 60 has n2k output and so does the tank gauge, also adding the little 9Ē Furuno mfd (not the tz, the less expensive one)
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:54 AM   #15
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Have you see the entry level Simrad GO XSE units? Pretty impressive what they offer in the small form factor, and hard to beat that low price. I've not used one, nor seen one installed, so I don't know what they're like to actually use.

https://www.simrad-yachting.com/simr...scan-cmap-pro/

I've toyed with the idea of getting one with their fish finder and side-scan transducer. Trouble is I've got a lowering swim platform and I'm uncertain how well the transducer would clear it. I've never actually checked how far it comes down. Apparently ours is the boat TNT used in their picture gallery.

I have zero need for either fish finder or a side-scan sonar, but it'd be a fun gizmo to play with. I just don't know how well/if it's display can be used for other purposes (and have made time to find out).
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:57 AM   #16
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I did a quick look but since I’m all Furuno I just stuck with that, plus I have a really good relationship with the tz and Furuno folks so support is excellent
Looks like a cool unit though, I am not a fisherman so great depth gauges are important, less so on sonar although forward looking has been on my wish list.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:23 AM   #17
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I agree, Furuno support folks have always been very helpful. Not just 'party line' responses either, real world understanding.

Forward sonar... yeah, if it was actually possible to install correctly, and capable of being as useful as we all expect.. it'd be GREAT!

But from what I can tell it's largely useless for anything other than moving slowly into an unknown area and getting a look-ahead of conditions.

Trouble is most of us would rather have it be able to see ahead while we're moving at a good clip and be somehow able to warn us in time for any obstacles. It doesn't rise to that level of magic, at least not yet.

I could see where it'd be really useful if used from a tender in conjunction with the main vessel. As in, go in with the dinghy to scout out the bathymetry and feed that back to the chart plotter on the vessel. Lots of data and networking there. I've zero need for that. But more importantly I don't see ever making an effective argument to the wife to justify spending for it!

Thus a cheap side-scan setup like the Simrad would be more for giggles and letting the guests gawk at the bottom pix. Still, some of the touchscreen and 3D rotate-able demos are pretty slick.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:59 AM   #18
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Funny you mentioned the dinghy setup, at some point I could kinda see that, if you had a laptop with TZ pro you could record on the tender and bring it back to the main boat. I however would rather Furuno enable community sharing of bottom maps, my guess is most anchorages, etc could be covered.
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Old 02-21-2019, 12:06 PM   #19
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I can't recall where I read it, but somewhere along the line I came across that scenario. Might have been a Power & Yacht article read while on the throne.

But yeah, there's tremendous 'potential' for stuff like this. Not sure how much is actually do-able, let alone how to determine reliability.

I'm all for community-shared data but look at what a mess Garmin made of the Active Captain acquisition. It hasn't completely died but it took a serious hit. But that's fodder for a whole other discussion.
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:46 PM   #20
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Can the GP-330B do both N2K and 0183 at the same time? The literature isn't entirely clear and I think there's two different cables. The connector under the puck has both, but I wasn't sure about both being usable at the same time. I don't plan, nor need, both, just wondering.

Be aware that Furuno has noted some potential issues[/URL] with the upcoming GPS week number rollover after April 6th 2019.

Don't know; as you say, there are two different cable assemblies, but I can't tell from the manual whether they connect at different points on the 330B or not. Early in the manual there's a diagram that implies both can be active at the same time, feeding different instruments... but ours only feeds our NMEA2000 network so I don't have any proof one way or the other.

Thanks ref the rollover issue; I know about that, and Furuno's answer about using the GPA-019 was a bit of a waffle: try it, but there might be problems, etc. I haven't quite imagined what the antenna would care about dates, but then I'm assuming it's just an antenna and all the processing is done in the receiver/display unit. Given no additional insight... I reckon I can plug the sucker into the GP-39 (whenever I get a round tuit), hope for the best... and if it doesn't get the dates right <sigh>, I'll climb up on the hardtop and swap in the mushroom. I might actually do that anyway, just maybe not on Day One if I don't have to.

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