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Old 02-25-2013, 08:16 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Marin View Post
Fix what? There isn't a problem. We don't want the other outlets in the circuit to lose power, only the GFI outlet that gets tripped. That's how the system in our boat works now.
So, you are on a boat (right?). There is absolutely positively NO chance that nothing you will ever plug in to one of those non protected outlets will ever get water on it or around it? Really? Continued good fortune to you!
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:22 PM   #42
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We run shore power and a generator in parallel everytime we arrive or depart. It is called "seamless transfer" and is as common as house electricians giving bad advice to boat owners.

Doing that is not "human error" it is common practice and for the most part, completely automatic.
Really? Both providing power to the same circuit? I think not. You are certainly NOT following the proper practice for boats. It is not uncommon to have one running one set of circuits and another a different one. So tell me what does your AC panel look like?

And Marin, you DO have a problem.. see the third part of my tag line.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:02 PM   #43
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And Marin, you DO have a problem.. see the third part of my tag line.
I didn't build the boat. American Marine did. And they and their successor Grand Banks Llc. built thousands of them. Just like ours. And most of them don't have ANY GFI outlets in them. And I have yet to hear of anyone having a problem as a result.

Our boat had no GFI outlets when we bought it, just like the majority of Grand Banks boats when they were built. At the suggestion of a surveyor during an insurance survey we changed the outlet in the aft head, which also contains the shower, to a GFI. Later we changed over two more due to their location and potential--- a very, very remote potential--- for a problem.

Next time you cross a street, think very, very carefully before you step off the curb. Because there's a chance that you will be killed. I put that in the same category as your earlier post.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:08 PM   #44
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<H1>T.S. Patriot State Engineering Manual</H1>Patriot State was the training ship of the Massachusetts Maritime Academy from 1986 to 1998.

Shifting from Shore Power to Ship's Power

  1. The ship's auxiliary plant will be started and one turbo generator brought up to speed. When the generator is ready in all respects, first check the amperage being drawn on the shore power ammeter. If the load is in excess of 600 amps, strip equipment off the board until the load is reduced. Selectively start with white handled (non vital) switches.
  2. Parallel the generator with shore power by using the manual voltage regulator and matching voltages. Control the synchroscope until it is slowly rotating clockwise. Check the synchronizing lights and have the cycles at 60+. As the synchroscope slowly rotates clockwise, close the generator circuit breaker at the "11 o'clock" position.
  3. Put the voltage regulator in "auto" and increase the load on the ship's generator until it is taking approximately the same amperage as the shore power.
  4. Open the ship's shore power breaker and tag it. Stabilize plant operation. NOTE: The shore power cable can be left connected and energized to be available if needed up until a few hours of getting underway.
  5. When the plant has stabilized and the shore power cable is to be removed, the shore power breaker on the dock is opened and tagged. At Buzzards Bay, Facilities personnel have the keys to the building where the breaker is located.
  6. At this point, test for voltage on all phases in the ship's shore power cabling, connection box to insure that there is no voltage.
  7. Disconnect the shore power cables from the ship's shore power connection box and coil the cables on the rack ashore. Wrap conductor ends to make them weather tight. Replace the ship's connection box cover and store all tools.
  8. Set up the emergency diesel generator by turning the start switch to "on" (no. 9, 120 vdc panel).
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:34 AM   #45
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For most of us with 30-65ft boats , we CAN live without electric for 60 seconds.

While a transfer switch may work , if wired properly , even automatically , its just more to buy install and maintain.

Weather it melts down when a boat on dock power with you starts his noisemaker is always open to speculation.

For 50A 250V or less , the solution is cheap simple and safe.

Install a plug inside that is the boat power supply , and plug it into a socket.

Shore Power , Generator 1, Night Generator, Inverter,Engine Cruise gen power , what ever is installed.

The neutral/ ground question will no longer be a problem, as each should be grounded at its source.

So simple a guest could do it.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:46 AM   #46
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So tell me what does your AC panel look like?
Here is a typical board. It primarily provides generator control with load sharing and shedding with a DC distribution subpanel on the side. An alarm and monitoring system is also incorporated in the board in a normal installation.

Circuit protection and isolation grunt work is done by subpanels near the consumers. Because even on the largest yachts there is seldom room for centralized power management, fairly comprehensive distribution panels are located in areas where the power is used.

When you want to start a generator and parallel it with shore power, you push the green button.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:55 AM   #47
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Weather it melts down when a boat on dock power with you starts his noisemaker is always open to speculation.
Describe the mechanism by which a transfer switch on Boat A would "melt down" because the generator on Boat B was started. Please.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:11 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by FF View Post
For most of us with 30-65ft boats , we CAN live without electric for 60 seconds.

While a transfer switch may work , if wired properly , even automatically , its just more to buy install and maintain.

Weather it melts down when a boat on dock power with you starts his noisemaker is always open to speculation.

For 50A 250V or less , the solution is cheap simple and safe.

Install a plug inside that is the boat power supply , and plug it into a socket.

Shore Power , Generator 1, Night Generator, Inverter,Engine Cruise gen power , what ever is installed.

The neutral/ ground question will no longer be a problem, as each should be grounded at its source.

So simple a guest could do it.
That will certainly work. It's not as convenient as throwing a switch or having an automatic transfer switch on the genset or inverter, but it will work just fine.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:51 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
For most of us with 30-65ft boats , we CAN live without electric for 60 seconds.

While a transfer switch may work , if wired properly , even automatically , its just more to buy install and maintain.

Weather it melts down when a boat on dock power with you starts his noisemaker is always open to speculation.

For 50A 250V or less , the solution is cheap simple and safe.

Install a plug inside that is the boat power supply , and plug it into a socket.

Shore Power , Generator 1, Night Generator, Inverter,Engine Cruise gen power , what ever is installed.

The neutral/ ground question will no longer be a problem, as each should be grounded at its source.

So simple a guest could do it.
I have similar arrangement that supplies my watermaker or dive compressor. The ac electrical system on my boat is somewhat antequated and I made this to ensure I don't overload it.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:25 AM   #50
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I have similar arrangement that supplies my watermaker or dive compressor. The ac electrical system on my boat is somewhat antequated and I made this to ensure I don't overload it.


Assuming you didn't connect the green wires together or to the box, that should work just fine with no chance of human error. It also provides for easily disconnecting all power for when you want to service your electrical system.
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