Getting Started on Solar

[PMF1984]

Thanks Heron,

Right now I have a Balmar smartgauge working that will give me SOC and I have an additional voltmeter that gives me a rough indication for each battery.

What I am concerned about know is my basic configuration as the Xantrex repowers the start battery and the Xantrex manual says to hook it up to a deep cycle battery (house bank).

I'd like to be at rest most of the time with power to the house bank coming from a solar array or the Xantrex (dock power or genset).

The Current set up is making the ACR do alot of work.

 

[Larry M]

We recently installed a Victron Smart Controller on our van with 2-100 watt panels. Lots of information on my iPad via the controller's Bluetooth.

 

[dhays]

"It would help me to understand your system configuration if you could draw a simple diagram." Yes, I agree. Is there a simple program for this? My hand drawn schematics just confuse me more.

"It sounds as if the only time your house bank is being charged is if your 1/2/Both switch is set to feeding the house. Is that correct?" ITo connect the Alternator and the Xantrax to the house bank, I would either have to set the switch on "Both" or rely on the West Marine Battery Combiner.

The Alternator and Xantrex are on the same pole as the Start Battery. My first switch has 3 terminals, terminal 1 & 2 are connected by a solid copper buss. Terminal 3 is the starter. Gives me the opportunity to turn off power tot he starter, that's it.

The Xantrex says install to power a deep cycle battery. Which it is not doing now.

Do you have a link to the post where you provided a diagram? I remember I liked it.

The diagram helps me a lot. Thanks.


So it looks to me as if all your charging sources are, in essence, going to the Start battery. A combiner then connects the start battery and house battery for the purposes of charging. You can select either the House bank or the Start battery or Both to supply the House DC panel. Your windlass, and thruster are connected to the start battery somehow.


If for some reason your start battery was drawn down, you could combine the house and start batteries with your second switch and presumably start the engine using the house bank.


Now that I see the diagram, I don't hate it. Others who are much more knowledgeable than I can give you a better idea. Your setup is using that first switch much like a buss bar. In general, I would send all charging sources to the house bank and then use the ACR to charge the start battery instead of the other way around. A lot depends on the battery sizes and types.


Keep in mind the ACR is just a switch. It doesn't do any "work". However, there will be some voltage drop so I would prefer to have the charging sources go to the house battery and then use the ACR to combine the start with the house when under charge. Depending on the physical layout, I'd run the alternator, charger, and solar all to a buss bar next to the House battery and connect the house to that buss bar. Everything else could be left the same.

 

[PMF1984]

The diagram helps me a lot. Thanks.


So it looks to me as if all your charging sources are, in essence, going to the Start battery. A combiner then connects the start battery and house battery for the purposes of charging. You can select either the House bank or the Start battery or Both to supply the House DC panel. Your windlass, and thruster are connected to the start battery somehow.


If for some reason your start battery was drawn down, you could combine the house and start batteries with your second switch and presumably start the engine using the house bank.


Now that I see the diagram, I don't hate it. Others who are much more knowledgeable than I can give you a better idea. Your setup is using that first switch much like a buss bar. In general, I would send all charging sources to the house bank and then use the ACR to charge the start battery instead of the other way around. A lot depends on the battery sizes and types.


Keep in mind the ACR is just a switch. It doesn't do any "work". However, there will be some voltage drop so I would prefer to have the charging sources go to the house battery and then use the ACR to combine the start with the house when under charge. Depending on the physical layout, I'd run the alternator, charger, and solar all to a buss bar next to the House battery and connect the house to that buss bar. Everything else could be left the

 

[PMF1984]

The diagram helps me a lot. Thanks.


So it looks to me as if all your charging sources are, in essence, going to the Start battery. A combiner then connects the start battery and house battery for the purposes of charging. You can select either the House bank or the Start battery or Both to supply the House DC panel. Your windlass, and thruster are connected to the start battery somehow.


If for some reason your start battery was drawn down, you could combine the house and start batteries with your second switch and presumably start the engine using the house bank.


Now that I see the diagram, I don't hate it. Others who are much more knowledgeable than I can give you a better idea. Your setup is using that first switch much like a buss bar. In general, I would send all charging sources to the house bank and then use the ACR to charge the start battery instead of the other way around. A lot depends on the battery sizes and types.


Keep in mind the ACR is just a switch. It doesn't do any "work". However, there will be some voltage drop so I would prefer to have the charging sources go to the house battery and then use the ACR to combine the start with the house when under charge. Depending on the physical layout, I'd run the alternator, charger, and solar all to a buss bar next to the House battery and connect the house to that buss bar. Everything else could be left the

Yes I would agree. The chemistry of the deep cell house battery is more sympactico withe the xantrex and solar inputs.

 

[dhays]

Yes I would agree. The chemistry of the deep cell house battery is more sympactico withe the xantrex and solar inputs.

Remember, when the ACR combines the banks, the start battery is being charged the same way as the house battery. This is fine as long as the two batteries are of the same type and reasonably the same vintage.

 

[PMF1984]

Well that’s another thing. If I need to expand my house bank, which is only a few moths old, can I add to it and if not, I might consider gels. But then I can’t with the current set up. Reading tribals thread, I’ll look at the echo charger.

 

[dhays]

Well that’s another thing. If I need to expand my house bank, which is only a few moths old, can I add to it and if not, I might consider gels. But then I can’t with the current set up. Reading tribals thread, I’ll look at the echo charger.

I like the Echo Charger, I have one on my boat. I also have a couple Balmer Duo Chargers that I use. Either work great. The Duo Charger can be configured on a limited basis for different types of batteries.

 

[PMF1984]

Yes, I looked at the echo and it’s pretty easy to install, much more so than the ACR. Price is right too. But I would still have the issue of dissimilar battery types if I wanted to switch to gels for the house bank

 

[PMF1984]

Ok, so I have reassessed my current wiring schematic in an attempt to install solar panels. Installed new busbar, removed another for cleaning. Put alternator, xantrex and solar on house bank. Replaced cables that had green at the connection points, replaced wires with wrong size connectors. Working from the battery to the controller. Panels in garage. All other needed parts on boat.

 

[dhays]

Ok, so I have reassessed my current wiring schematic in an attempt to install solar panels. Installed new busbar, removed another for cleaning. Put alternator, xantrex and solar on house bank. Replaced cables that had green at the connection points, replaced wires with wrong size connectors. Working from the battery to the controller. Panels in garage. All other needed parts on boat.

Sounds like you have done a lot of work. I believe you will ultimately be very happy to have that taken care of as you go forward.

 

[PMF1984]

Looking at fastening panel mounts to deck. Available choices at the local WM is either 4200 or 5200. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[JDCAVE]

I used 4200.

 

[dhays]

Looking at fastening panel mounts to deck. Available choices at the local WM is either 4200 or 5200. Any thoughts or suggestions?

I used 3M tape and then sealed the edges with UV stable 4200.

 

[PMF1984]

Thanks guys. Just what type of winds do you get out there. We have a 60+ blow often, seems like once a year.

 

[dhays]

Thanks guys. Just what type of winds do you get out there. We have a 60+ blow often, seems like once a year.

The RV crowd puts solar panels on the top of their rigs quite often. they are cruising down the freeways at 70+ MPH. You can buy solar mounts that have 3M tape on them. Here is a vendor that carries some.

https://rvsolarstore.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=39

I’ve not used them. My PH roof isn’t quite flat. I needed to come up with a system that would allow the feet to to fit flush with the PH roof even though it is slightly curved. I also needed more clearance than is typical. I ended up making my own. However, if I could have used them, I would have used the “sticky feet” mounts at that website. I believe some other TF members have used them.

I ended up creating my own mounting brackets. The system I came up with I believe is going to work great over the long run. So far no problems at all but it has only been a few months. However, I think if you can use a ready made product such as those sticky feet mounts it would be a lot easier with less fussing. I think if it hadn’t been for the clearance issues, I could have easily used 4 of the sticky feet mounts and it would have worked well.

 

[PMF1984]

Thanks Dave,

I got the panel manufacturer's mounts (about the same price). I have them fitted on the panels so I'm just looking at adhesives I can use. Want to get it done today, so I am limited at what is locally available.

John

 

[dhays]

Thanks Dave,

I got the panel manufacturer's mounts (about the same price). I have them fitted on the panels so I'm just looking at adhesives I can use. Want to get it done today, so I am limited at what is locally available.

John

Sorry John, I’ve been gone all day at a wedding weekend thing for my niece. In your shoes, I would check at a big box store and buy some 3M VHB tape (Very High Bond) and pick up a tube of 3M 4000 adhesive sealant. Use the tape to bond the mounts and then use the 4000 to seal the edges. Very quick and effective and you should be able to find the materials locally.

 

[PMF1984]

Dave,

So thanks for the tip about the tape, I'll get some for my fix bag. My upper deck has a slight curve so the tape would have very little contact area.

I went for some 4200 but the local WM had only one tube, and I did not want to be embarrassed by running out of sticky half way through the job. I went with fast cure 5200. So the mounting brackets are all made fast as of now.

Next step is some holes in the deck and cabin side to feed wires through. For the deck I have a deck gland that will accept multiple wires and will pick up a grommet fr going though the cabin side.

John

 

[PMF1984]

Problem here! need help.

So I installed three solar panels and wired them in parallel. According to the Victron Controller they are putting out 20.92 volts now.

My panelboard gauge says I have 13 volts on the house bank, my Balmar Smartgauge says 13.2 volts, and the multimeter when placed on the Victron says 13.

The Victron Controller has the panels producing 0 watts and 0 watts going to the battery.

Had more of less the same thing when the battery voltage was 12 volts.

I contacted the Victron folks in Maine who suggested that I wire the panels in series. ( there has to be a 5 volt delta between the panels and the battery - which there is now)

Any suggestions welcome

John

 

[dhays]

Problem here! need help.



So I installed three solar panels and wired them in parallel. According to the Victron Controller they are putting out 20.92 volts now.



My panelboard gauge says I have 13 volts on the house bank, my Balmar Smartgauge says 13.2 volts, and the multimeter when placed on the Victron says 13.



The Victron Controller has the panels producing 0 watts and 0 watts going to the battery.



Had more of less the same thing when the battery voltage was 12 volts.



I contacted the Victron folks in Maine who suggested that I wire the panels in series. ( there has to be a 5 volt delta between the panels and the battery - which there is now)



Any suggestions welcome



John

I would double check the charge profile of the controller. Specifically, check the voltages for absorb and float.

Also, is your regular battery charger operating? I know that if my regular battery charger is plugged in and holding the battery at 13.4v float then the Victron won’t send any amps to the battery bank.

 

[PMF1984]

Dave,
Absorb setting is 14.7, float is 13.5.

Yesterday, the reading for the battery voltage said 13.34v, 0 amps, .and indicated "Float"

Well my old dial type battery monitor said 12.25 volts and my new Balmar Smart gauge said 12.25 volts.

And there was no output to the batteries.

John

 

[dhays]

Dave,
Absorb setting is 14.7, float is 13.5.

Yesterday, the reading for the battery voltage said 13.34v, 0 amps, .and indicated "Float"

Well my old dial type battery monitor said 12.25 volts and my new Balmar Smart gauge said 12.25 volts.

And there was no output to the batteries.

John

Yeah, something is odd. I have no idea.

I would talk to Victron again and tell them exactly what your situation and readings are. You already have the 5v delta they want between the panel voltage and battery voltage. I suppose it is possible that there is a fault with the controller. I would also talk to whomever you purchased the controller from.

 

[Tolly Roger]

We just finished a 17 day Desolation Sound trip with the new solar system and was really pleased with the results.
I did a blog post of our set up here: https://tollyroger.com/2018/08/15/going-solar/

 

[dhays]

That is great Tolly Roger. You never needed to run the generator, but what types of loads do you run on your batteries that the 400W of solar was able to replace it all?

 

[Tolly Roger]

That's a great question!
I don't really have an accurate answer and I realize that needs to be part of the overall equation. I was just really happy not to be worried about power.
However....
I have estimated we use 100-150Ah per day but maybe more in Desolation Sound
The fridge draws just over 7amps (and runs quite a bit more in the heat)
We use the inverter to make coffee in the Morning, then we have the usual lights, stereo, cel phone booster and chargers, water pump and vacuflush. We even used a 12V fan to try and cool off the salon. We were careful with power but not to the point of turning the fridge off or not using lights.

 

[PMF1984]

All is well with the solar installation, I had a bad circuit breaker. Have not had a chance to “road test” the system yet. I’m headed south soon and will probably keep to the marinas so I can have heat for the first half of the trip. Once heat is not needed I’ll try some overnights on battery power.

John

 

[motion30]

Here's my opinion why was good to know what your amperage draw is. In the end you will wind up fitting as much solar as you can fit in your space. The larger solar panels or cheaper per watt so if you can fit bigger panels do that check on eBay I've seen 300 watt panels for a hundred and sixty bucks. Then of course you need a mppt controller

 

[dutch-barge]

Looking at the controllers at emarine, I see that the Morningstar Prostar PS-MPPT-40, the Blue Sky SB3024DiL, or the Victron Blue Solar MPPT Charge Controller 150-45 will suit my needs.

This is for 3 160 watt panels.

I notice that the Blue Sky is over $100 less than the other two units. Any way to make a choice here other than by price?

I have used Victron units on both my boats, the good thing is, you can view data ia bluetooth with their app and if you get the Venus unit, you can view it remotely and even use the Venus as an alarm system for temperature, bilge, location, SOC, shore power working etc.

 

[SteveandZoila]

getting started in solar

I just order 4 panels, the max I can put on, so I max out on watts, found 370 watt Panels, =1480 watts!! Have not figured out MPPT controllers yet.
I am designing one mega bank for everything. 5 8D gels 1100ah, my plan is kiss. thoughts?