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Old 02-17-2015, 02:17 PM   #61
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OC, the writing is on the wall, fuel cells will replace generators, if not quite yet.

By the way, I think you mean 8 units.
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Old 02-17-2015, 03:17 PM   #62
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Anyone know what size March pump would work for a 7.5 MDJE?

They make everything from 162 GPH to 1020 GPH. Based just on the size of the outlet fitting, I'd guess the 510 GPH.

My genset has a bolt-on raw water pump, so I wouldn't even need to cover it over with a plate. Just get a new belt to drive the circulating water pump and plumb the electric pump in the intake hose. With a generator and two reverse-cycle air conditioners, having a spare pump that would work on any of them seems like a no-brainer.
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Old 02-17-2015, 04:05 PM   #63
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Cap'n Bill and Larry and all: Thanks for the "Heads up" on the March Pump. It was the PO install. I was willing to live with it unless it caused damage to the pump. So I phoned March's technical people with the particulars and the fellow said that it could cause damage, depending on the duty cycle and water temperature, so I will remount it. It will require jockeying some fittings around, so will see what I can do.
As I look at this a bit further, there is more than pump orientation that I should be concerned about. The water lines need to be better supported.

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Old 02-17-2015, 04:29 PM   #64
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"but I discovered that without current limiting and at full charge rate, the belts stretch and fail very quickly. So I limit it to about 90 amps."

Sounds like an automatic (spring) belt tightener might be on the next NAPA visit wish list.
Unfortunately, I undersized the belts when I built it, and under full load, they turn to string with a lot of noise and smoke...

90 amps at nominal 24V (28V when charging) is plenty to recharge quickly or run a hairdryer, vacuum cleaner etc and even a small fan heater in winter.
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Old 02-17-2015, 05:19 PM   #65
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Unfortunately, I undersized the belts when I built it, and under full load, they turn to string with a lot of noise and smoke...

90 amps at nominal 24V (28V when charging) is plenty to recharge quickly or run a hairdryer, vacuum cleaner etc and even a small fan heater in winter.
If you can increase the diameter of both pulleys, keeping the same ratio, the actual tensile load on belts goes down for the same amps produced. Also increases the contact area of the belts, which helps further.
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Old 02-17-2015, 05:58 PM   #66
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OC, the writing is on the wall, fuel cells will replace generators, if not quite yet.

By the way, I think you mean 8 units.
Nope, no mistake, each unit produces 107 watts. My 8KW genset produces 8,000 watts. Need 80 units.

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Old 02-17-2015, 08:21 PM   #67
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Nope, no mistake, each unit produces 107 watts. My 8KW genset produces 8,000 watts. Need 80 units.

Ted
Ted is right. The fuel cell will never replace the diesel generator as the main source of ship's power, at least not in my or my children's lifetime.

The fuel cell units are too expensive and because most use methanol as their fuel which is a very inefficient source of energy, the operating costs are huge.

David
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Old 02-17-2015, 09:01 PM   #68
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As I look at this a bit further, there is more than pump orientation that I should be concerned about. The water lines need to be better supported.

Jim
Yeah the fittings on the pump aren't going to be happy with that kind of weight hanging on them. I would also consider replacing all those metal fittings with plastic.
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:46 PM   #69
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OC, the writing is on the wall, fuel cells will replace generators, if not quite yet.

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Old 02-18-2015, 06:58 AM   #70
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The big hassle with noisemakers is the builders are locked into existing products by their factory costa.

Honda and others with massive volumes have great gas units that produce DC and use electronics to create the power form desired.

Bendit was able to home brew a modern efficient variable speed unit .

Some day competition will require most of the current antique designs to be scrapped ,

Business opportunity anyone?
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Old 02-18-2015, 09:12 AM   #71
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The big hassle with noisemakers is the builders are locked into existing products by their factory costa.

Honda and others with massive volumes have great gas units that produce DC and use electronics to create the power form desired.

Bendit was able to home brew a modern efficient variable speed unit .

Some day competition will require most of the current antique designs to be scrapped ,

Business opportunity anyone?
Maybe these already exist; as our Kohler runs well, and not being in need, I've not researched the following.

1. Why not for Honda or Bendix to make easily adaptable marine gen-sets that could be located where existing gen-sets sit in pleasure boats and have control panel in same basic location too.

2. What weight / size would they need to build for it to provide 7 to 9 kW

3. Wonder if their marine sets could still be air-cooled with piped-out exhaust while deep in lower confines of a boat? Water cooling necessary??
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Old 02-18-2015, 10:37 AM   #72
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3. Wonder if their marine sets could still be air-cooled with piped-out exhaust while deep in lower confines of a boat? Water cooling necessary??
Not likely. An internal combustion engine driven generatorconverts very roughly 1/4 of its fuel energy to electricity, about 1/3 goes out the exhaust and the rest is heat rejected to the cooling system or radiant/conductive losses from the engine block.

So very roughly speaking a Honda EU 2000 running at its maximum continuous output of 1,600 watts is going to dump about 2,000 watts into the bilge compartment where it is located. Think about how hot your bilge would get on a summers day if you had 1-1/3 of the typical 1,500 space heaters running down there.

And then double that number or triple it for larger gensets. It just won't work without active cooling, either above deck where the air can circulate or cooled with sea water below.

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Old 02-18-2015, 03:16 PM   #73
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We have a NL 5 KW in sound box NL is a great generator, we run A/C two 16,000 btu and it handles the load. Last trawler had Kohler 8KW in sound box same as ranger42c and it was okay, by that I mean it strained when the one 16,000 btu A/C came on but kept running. What ever is engineered into the NL works !!
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Old 02-18-2015, 03:25 PM   #74
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We have a NL 5 KW in sound box NL is a great generator, we run A/C two 16,000 btu and it handles the load. Last trawler had Kohler 8KW in sound box same as ranger42c and it was okay, by that I mean it strained when the one 16,000 btu A/C came on but kept running. What ever is engineered into the NL works !!
Must have been that Kohler...

my 26 year old Westerbeke 8 kw handles 2 - 16,000 btu ACs, hot water heater, microwave, coffee pot, battery charger, and all the other house loads and maybe drops from 120v to 115v and a few cycles....no strain here.
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Old 02-18-2015, 04:18 PM   #75
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We have a NL 5 KW in sound box NL is a great generator, we run A/C two 16,000 btu and it handles the load. Last trawler had Kohler 8KW in sound box same as ranger42c and it was okay, by that I mean it strained when the one 16,000 btu A/C came on but kept running. What ever is engineered into the NL works !!
Something was wrong with your Kohler or your A/C. There is nothing magic about a NL Genset.
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Old 02-18-2015, 04:48 PM   #76
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We have a NL 5 KW in sound box NL is a great generator, we run A/C two 16,000 btu and it handles the load. Last trawler had Kohler 8KW in sound box same as ranger42c and it was okay, by that I mean it strained when the one 16,000 btu A/C came on but kept running. What ever is engineered into the NL works !!
If we're running both 16K BTU ACs, and the water heater, both fridges, and maybe cooking, our genset does sometimes slow a bit when one of the AC compressors kicks on. Or maybe it's when both ACs are on but the thermostats haven't actually activated them and the pump's not already running. Anyway, just a quick step, nothing that seems to be of concern.

Wouldn't have thought a single AC would cause much of a burp.

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Old 02-19-2015, 08:46 AM   #77
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The added efficiency of a DC variable speed /inverter setup comes from its minor load ability to match the engine HP to the load.

Running at almost full bore the fuel burn would only be slightly different.

The mismatched installation a 12KW running only the fridge would be helped.

Some folks could do better using the noise maker cooling thru the heat exchanger to create domestic hot water.

Co generation , capturing some of the lost energy for free.
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Old 03-20-2015, 11:05 PM   #78
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Pgitug, now you no longer have a blank page on gensets, any supplementary questions?

After reading all of the posts I am thinking my next boat will have a Northern Lights generator. The boat I just sold had a
Fisher Panda generator. The FP folks really treated us well during the 9 years and 1800 hours we owned it. But after reading the posts I am looking forward to a low RPM generator for both the lower noise and probably a lower operating temperature.
I appreciate the information and experience provided. It sure beats flying by the seat of your pants.
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Old 03-21-2015, 12:08 AM   #79
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I wouldn't make the lack of a Northern Lights genset a no go item on your next boat. A properly sized and sound insulated generator from Onan, Westerbeke, etc would be fine also. I have an Onan (Cummins) MDKBL in a sound enclosure installed in a well insulated engine compartment. 9 KW and it runs three 12000 btu air conditioners, water heater, cooktop, etc with no problems. It is very quiet and very low vibration. The only thing I wish I had was the exhaust water separator.

My last boat had a small Mastervolt 3.5 KW genset running at 3600 rpm. It was pretty quiet inside its enclosure, but it did vibrate. The lower rpm genset I have now is huge improvement in livability over the 3600 rpm one.
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Old 03-21-2015, 06:52 AM   #80
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DEUTZ and others make air cooled engines in the 100+ HP range , cooling would be ductwork (12x12 or larger) with a proper fan.

A 4 to 20KW noisemaker would need far less.

The possibility of co generation , using the engine cooling to dry a wet locker , or even heat the boat is possible.

The ductwork would be lined with sound absorbing material to stop noise transfer.

Nothing to winterize , no holes in the boat , and no midnight visits from jellyfish to clear.
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