Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-30-2012, 12:27 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
patzfan4eva's Avatar
 
City: Marina Del Rey, CA
Country: Los Angeles
Vessel Name: Mayhem
Vessel Model: CHB 34' Tri-Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 88
Garmin Fuel Monitoring

I have a Garmin 740S Chartplotter which has the ability to monitor fuel, however Garmin's fuel monitoring device only works with Gasoline and any respecting trawler owner run the diesel stuff. Has any one had success or investigated using the NMEA 2000 connection on a Garmin for fuel monitoring and what meter do you use?

Garmin GFS 10 Fuel Sensor
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
David
Mayhem Pilot
"BOAT" Break Out Another Thousand
patzfan4eva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 12:37 PM   #2
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
I talked to Flowscan. it would cost about $700.00 bucks for an interface for the nema 2000. Then it would work.

Do you currently have a fuel flow monitor?

Sd
__________________

__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 12:42 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
patzfan4eva's Avatar
 
City: Marina Del Rey, CA
Country: Los Angeles
Vessel Name: Mayhem
Vessel Model: CHB 34' Tri-Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 88
SD,

Thanks, I don't have one now and with a LH120 not sure I really need one, but would like it. $700 holy smokes, Flowscan is so expensive but I understand very good

David
__________________
David
Mayhem Pilot
"BOAT" Break Out Another Thousand
patzfan4eva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 12:50 PM   #4
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
I looked into it because the garmin I have, has the dash board gages on one of the screens.
When I thought about it was not much of an issue just to look at the Flow Scan.
It has a tac with a gph and an hour meter as well as a total fuel used
the interface is A nice option but not really worth the cost to me that is

SD
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 01:09 PM   #5
Veteran Member
 
patzfan4eva's Avatar
 
City: Marina Del Rey, CA
Country: Los Angeles
Vessel Name: Mayhem
Vessel Model: CHB 34' Tri-Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 88
How much was the self contained flowscan system?
__________________
David
Mayhem Pilot
"BOAT" Break Out Another Thousand
patzfan4eva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 01:15 PM   #6
Guru
 
Aquabelle's Avatar
 
City: sydney
Country: australia
Vessel Name: Aquabelle
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Flushdeck
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 538
Maretron also have a solution....which was recently favourably reviewed in PassageMaker and seen as being superior to FlowScan. It is also cheaper and has recently taken out an industry award. Details: Maretron : Marine Electronic Instruments
Aquabelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 01:19 PM   #7
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
When I bought mine I don't remember.
Google Flow Scan.
Give them a call. Nice people.

SD
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 06:49 AM   #8
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
however Garmin's fuel monitoring device only works with Gasoline

The gas flow meters only count the fuel going to the engine.

A diesel requires a return flow meter , and the unit counts the difference.

However not all diesels have a return flow that matters very much.

Usually the Bosch style does not return a lot , but its individual , A VW diesel is like a DD , the return is huge.

Perhaps a measure to find the return volume on your engine , might be the place to start to see if the gas unit would work?

FF
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 09:30 AM   #9
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
As nice as it would be to monitor fuel use on my boat, it appears that it would cost nearly $1K. My fuel use for the four years I have owned my boat has averaged less than $1K per year.

Saving 10% in fuel use by monitoring it would take more than ten years before the savings would pay for the system. I don't think it's a wise investment for me.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 09:36 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
patzfan4eva's Avatar
 
City: Marina Del Rey, CA
Country: Los Angeles
Vessel Name: Mayhem
Vessel Model: CHB 34' Tri-Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 88
Rwidman, you make very valid points. I think I'll run the boat for an hour at a time at different rpms and record fuel level. We travel to and from Catalina island here in California. So I could easily judge fuel use in that regard. Thanks for the advice and input all.
__________________
David
Mayhem Pilot
"BOAT" Break Out Another Thousand
patzfan4eva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 09:51 AM   #11
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by patzfan4eva View Post
Rwidman, you make very valid points. I think I'll run the boat for an hour at a time at different rpms and record fuel level. We travel to and from Catalina island here in California. So I could easily judge fuel use in that regard. Thanks for the advice and input all.
For many fuel management systems are more about fuel usage than savings...especially because the average fuel tank monitor for boats are often so inaccurate or unreliable.

Many feel because of the total tankage, sight guages, and low consumption...you would have to be pretty incompetent to run out of fuel in a trawler while coastal cruising.

Usually once you get an accurate fuel usage on a small diesel...however you choose to do it...guestimations from there on are pretty accurate.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 10:36 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Vyndance's Avatar
 
City: Ventura, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Vyndance
Vessel Model: 48 Californian CP
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by patzfan4eva View Post
SD,

Thanks, I don't have one now and with a LH120 not sure I really need one, but would like it. $700 holy smokes, Flowscan is so expensive but I understand very good

David
The 120 Lehman, 2715, returns somewhere around a pint in 8 hours at full throttle. The Garmin unit would work just fine.
Vyndance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 02:24 PM   #13
Veteran Member
 
patzfan4eva's Avatar
 
City: Marina Del Rey, CA
Country: Los Angeles
Vessel Name: Mayhem
Vessel Model: CHB 34' Tri-Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 88
From Garmin....

"The plastic the GFS 10 is made of will deteriorate with diesel fuel. NMEA 2000 is an industry standard so a Diesel sensor from another manufacturer can be used."
__________________
David
Mayhem Pilot
"BOAT" Break Out Another Thousand
patzfan4eva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 03:59 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Vyndance's Avatar
 
City: Ventura, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Vyndance
Vessel Model: 48 Californian CP
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Interesting diesel would eat it and gas wouldn't. I wonder what the time frame is ?
Vyndance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 05:34 AM   #15
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyndance View Post
Interesting diesel would eat it and gas wouldn't. I wonder what the time frame is ?

It does seem at odds with most of the chemical resistance charts. PBT is given an "A" grade for diesel fuel resistance by these guys while they give it a "B" for gasoline.

Several sources give PBT a good compatibility rating with diesel. Maybe the manufacturer is just trying to discourage people from using these on a diesel so they will by a more expensive system.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 01:12 PM   #16
Veteran Member
 
patzfan4eva's Avatar
 
City: Marina Del Rey, CA
Country: Los Angeles
Vessel Name: Mayhem
Vessel Model: CHB 34' Tri-Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 88
Pressing them again, now the answer is that the wheel on the inside won't read the diesel fuel correctly. There's gotta be more to this story...but I'm done trying to figure out what. LOL!
__________________
David
Mayhem Pilot
"BOAT" Break Out Another Thousand
patzfan4eva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 06:56 PM   #17
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by patzfan4eva View Post
Pressing them again, now the answer is that the wheel on the inside won't read the diesel fuel correctly. There's gotta be more to this story...but I'm done trying to figure out what. LOL!
There really isn't much more to it than they want you to buy their more expensive system.

Turbine and paddlewheel flow meters of the kind they use will work over a reasonably wide range of viscosity that includes gas and diesel.

If you want to homebrew a system, look on the net for automotive fuel flow meters for an inexpensive turbine or paddlewheel meter with a pulse or 4-20mA output (pulse is cheaper) and then look at Ebay for a totalizer meter to hook it up to. Voila! a fully functional flowmeter and totalizer for around $200 or less that can easily be calibrated very closely.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 07:18 PM   #18
Veteran Member
 
patzfan4eva's Avatar
 
City: Marina Del Rey, CA
Country: Los Angeles
Vessel Name: Mayhem
Vessel Model: CHB 34' Tri-Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 88
Rick,

I thought that as well, but they don't a more expensive fuel flow sensor system. When I asked why I was told that they don't know why or when they'll put one on the market. I wonder if there is an intermediate communication device need for diesels due to the return flow sensor requirement that they feel would price them out of competition. Anyway, FL is a fuel miser engine and my reminded me that with some short runs and refills of fuel I can easily determine fuel flow at different rpms. It would be nice to have the rate displayed on my chartplotter was the only real modivation.
__________________
David
Mayhem Pilot
"BOAT" Break Out Another Thousand
patzfan4eva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 06:44 AM   #19
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
Usually once you get an accurate fuel usage on a small diesel...however you choose to do it...guestimations from there on are pretty accurate.

For most cruisers the engine hour meter will serve to know the tank fill state.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 08:21 AM   #20
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by patzfan4eva View Post
I wonder if there is an intermediate communication device need for diesels due to the return flow sensor requirement that they feel would price them out of competition.
A truly accurate diesel system does require measuring both streams in order to calculate the difference and display that as the burn rate. That doubles the number of flow meters and increases the computing requirement so it naturally costs more.


Quote:
It would be nice to have the rate displayed on my chartplotter was the only real modivation.
For our purposes, a flowmeter attached to an engine that returns very little fuel will be reasonably accurate as long as the return flow is very low and/or constant across the load range. The return fuel can measured the old fashioned way by flowing it into a container and then be be calibrated "out" of the calculation as an "offset."

This type of system won't work on engines with large return flows without two flowmeters.

There are plenty of cheap, plastic or nylon housing automotive fuel flow meters available and their output can go to a cheap flow
totalizer that provides an output readable by your nav system. It might be a fun project if you are into that sort of thing.
__________________

RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012