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Old 05-17-2014, 12:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by timjet View Post
I do have a question concerning the battery monitor and the inverter. I haven't had a chance to check it out yet, but will the battery monitor register the inverter use (DC side) with the hook up I've got. The inverter is connected to the positive terminal of one of the house batteries and the negative is connected to the negative side of the same battery. My house bank consists of 4 AGM batteries connected in parallel. The shunt of the battery monitor is connected to the negative side of one of the house bank batteries but not the same one as the inverter.

Below is a schematic.
Tim, you need all your grounds connected downstream from the shunt. Can you move the inverter ground to a point past the shunt? I added a terminal block after the shunt to accommodate all the grounds cleanly.



Also take a look at your charger neg lead. It needs to be downstream from the shunt so that all loads and charges pass through the shunt when passing to ground.



Here's a great tutorial with good illustrations.

Installing A Battery Monitor Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:09 PM   #22
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Thanks Al for catching that.

Below is the revised schematic.

Do you know what size negative terminal block I would need for the 100 amp charger and 2000 watt inverter. Under the below schematic I don't think the alternators will register on the battery monitor, I have no idea where the negative leads go to on the alternators probably the the engine blocks.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:20 PM   #23
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OK, well now that I've had time to look at my other electrical schematics, I'm not sure my battery monitor is going to be much help.

There are several negative common bus bars through out the boat maybe 15 or so. I don't know where these negative bus bars connect but I know they can't connect after the shunt.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:53 PM   #24
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Negative shunts and with bypass leads create a challenging problem. That's one of the reasons the BalMar SOC battery gauge is being debated in this forum and many others. I used a 600-800 amp rated negative buss bar(s) made by BlueSea to tie my negatives together before the shunt.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:00 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timjet View Post
Do you know what size negative terminal block I would need for the 100 amp charger and 2000 watt inverter. Under the below schematic I don't think the alternators will register on the battery monitor, I have no idea where the negative leads go to on the alternators probably the the engine blocks.
1. Blue Seas 2303 terminal block is rated for 150A. I used a 2104 that is oversized at 600A. This is what I have.

2. There's no neg lead from the alternator. Its positive lead goes to the battery, and the ground is the engine itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timjet View Post
OK, well now that I've had time to look at my other electrical schematics, I'm not sure my battery monitor is going to be much help.

There are several negative common bus bars through out the boat maybe 15 or so. I don't know where these negative bus bars connect but I know they can't connect after the shunt.
All your negative blocks should be connected to the ground through the battery ground leads. If you disconnect the house bank ground cable, all these systems should be dead. If so, you're set up properly. If some systems are still powered, disconnect the house pos cable to see if they're still powered. If they're now dead, you have a secondary ground set up somewhere and the battery monitor won't read those loads. If they are still powered, then they're being powered through the start or another battery and the battery monitor won't read those loads.

PM me if you'd like to talk it through on the phone.
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Old 05-17-2014, 04:14 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Billylll View Post
Negative shunts and with bypass leads create a challenging problem. That's one of the reasons the BalMar SOC battery gauge is being debated in this forum and many others. I used a 600-800 amp rated negative buss bar(s) made by BlueSea to tie my negatives together before the shunt.
Bill
By "before the shunt", do you mean between the engine ground and the shunt itself?

Yes, the Balmar SmartGauge had no shunt and learns your battery bank's condition through voltage sensing alone. It like having a more accurate fuel tank guage, but not having the fuel flow meters. You can see how low your battery is, but you can't monitor the rate of consumption without a shunt system like the Victron or LinkPro.
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Old 05-18-2014, 05:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post
By "before the shunt", do you mean between the engine ground and the shunt itself?

Yes, the Balmar SmartGauge had no shunt and learns your battery bank's condition through voltage sensing alone. It like having a more accurate fuel tank guage, but not having the fuel flow meters. You can see how low your battery is, but you can't monitor the rate of consumption without a shunt system like the Victron or LinkPro.
Yes between the engine ground and shunt.
I haven't installed the BalMar SOC meter yet it will be interesting to watch how it behaves.
I also use the 2104 buss bars.
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Old 05-22-2014, 12:00 AM   #28
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The main thing to remember with a battery monitor shunt is this. NOTHING is connected directly to the battery negative but the shunt on the battery bank you are trying to monitor, usually the house bank. EVERYTHING is connected to the load side of the shunt, usually on a negative buss bar. If this is done, the monitor will see everything going into and out of the battery bank no matter where it comes from. (inverters, alternators, battery chargers, etc.)
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Old 05-22-2014, 07:12 AM   #29
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The main thing to remember with a battery monitor shunt is this. NOTHING is connected directly to the battery negative but the shunt on the battery bank you are trying to monitor, usually the house bank. EVERYTHING is connected to the load side of the shunt, usually on a negative buss bar. If this is done, the monitor will see everything going into and out of the battery bank no matter where it comes from. (inverters, alternators, battery chargers, etc.)

YES!

The diagram shown does not monitor the batt charger or inverter , rather important items.
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Old 05-22-2014, 08:04 AM   #30
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Yes both Brentt and FF are correct. All negative leads must connect to the Load side of the shunt.

Below is my revised schematic.

Notice I connected the Engine ground wire directly to the Load side of the shunt. I also connected a negative bus bar to the Load side.
Reason; the bus bar is rated for 150 amps. The shunt is rated at 500 amps. I thought is would be better to put the starting loads at the higher rated shunt instead of the lower rated bus bar.
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Old 05-22-2014, 08:48 AM   #31
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Tim: Have you looked at moving your positive inverter lead so that it draws through all the batteries equally?
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:44 AM   #32
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Tim, you might want to consider installing a high current 4 position battery switch on the house bank effectively dividing it in half. You can run it in the all position but if you ever have a problem with one of the batteries you can isolate one half of the system. This is what I am doing on my Gulfstar's new house bank.
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Old 05-22-2014, 11:50 AM   #33
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Simply disconnect the problem battery (bank) with a couple turns of a wrench and you save the cost of additional wiring, ends, switch, chances for loose comnnections and corrosion.

Battery setups are rarely install and forget...they probably need more attention than any other system on the boat except crew.
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:00 AM   #34
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The revised drawing will still not measure properly ,

I believe it needs to connect to the OTHER SIDE of the shunt , in order to go THRU the shunt, and create a reading.
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Old 05-23-2014, 04:28 PM   #35
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The shunt is wired wrong in the above picture/ diagram.
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Old 05-23-2014, 05:25 PM   #36
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Maybe I'd run the ground from the terminal block to the engine, but it looks like it's correctly wired with all load negs downstream from the shunt. What's wrong with it?
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:28 PM   #37
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I was concerned about the engine ground lead depending on the amperage the starting battery draws. It's okay my mistake Al.
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Old 05-24-2014, 06:02 AM   #38
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but it looks like it's correctly wired with all load negs downstream from th\e shunt. What's wrong with it?

I believe it needs to connect to the OTHER SIDE of the shunt , in order to go THRU the shunt, and create a reading.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:38 AM   #39
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OK, thanks guys, I've been off the grid for the last couple of days.

I believe the monitor is correctly wired. All loads are connected to the load side of the shunt. As shown on the diagram there are two cables connected to the load side of the shunt. One goes to the engine block and the other to a bus bar. The inverter and battery charger are connected to the bus bar and all other loads go through the engine block. But again both of these are connected to the Load side of the shunt.

I think Larry is correct. The inverter's positive lead should be connected to the battery farthest away from the battery whose negative lead is connected to the shunt thereby using the entire bank.

At least I think this is all correct. I like the idea of connecting the cable from the engine block directly to the shut and then connecting the lighter loads (inverter and batt charger) to a bus bar. This way the starting loads don't go through the 150 amp rated bus bar but rather through the higher rated 500 amp shunt.

Am I completely off base????
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Old 05-25-2014, 07:47 AM   #40
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This way the starting loads don't go through the 150 amp rated bus bar but rather through the higher rated 500 amp shunt.

The starter loads should NEVER be run thru a shunt.
1. too small a load over time,

2. a shunt is basically a measured resistance,

A FUSE is a measured resistance .

Just do what 100% of the boats do and forget about measuring start amperage on the OC.

A volt meter across the operating starter is a great troubleshooting tool tho.
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