Engine Room Fire and VHF

[Baker]

The reason for engine shutdown is to stop ventilation. Halon only works when confined. If the engines continue to run they ventilate the engine room and remove the halon.

Halon does not burn but will decompose with extreme heat and can give off phosgene a poisonous gas.

I am not claiming what I said to be true. I just heard about it and am in the process of doing a little research. I do realize that Halon does not burn...which is why we use it as a means of fighting fires. But I was under the impression that the heat does break it down into a gas that diesel engines can use to maintain combustion. Again, just parroting what i have heard somewhere and am looking around on the internet for anything that supports it.

Now if we go with what you are saying, shouldn't the concentrated Halon itself cause the engines to stop?

 

[Ski in NC]

If given a full mouthful of halon, I think the engine would stop running. The problem is the halon is being admitted at a rate where say the engine gets half air, half halon, and continues to run, probably poorly. So the engine is pumping halon out as fast as it is being admitted.

I'm not sure exactly how the halon works, whether it quenches the fire or merely displaces O2. Gots me some reading to do...

 

[psneeld]

The original Halon was cool stuff...a friend of mine in the early 80s went to a distributer to investigate its use for USCG aviation.


In the office, the guy behind the desk said "hey, have a smoke". My friend went to light up and the guys desk was covered with a 100 lighters. After trying a few, my friend Frank was like WTF? The guy offered Frank some matches...same result...none would work.


The guy leaned back and pulled open a sliding door and pointed to a large bottle of Halon mounted to the wall. He said that it was trickling Halon into the room at a rate just low enough to prevent combustion.


I can't verify the story...but if true...pretty cool.

 

[obthomas]

It could be true. Halon works for most combustion at about 7% by volume. There is still enough oxygen to support life but the halon is in a concentration that interferes with the combustion process. These characteristic are why a diesel engine could continue to run and pump the halon out of the boat. It is necessary to shut down all ventilation for halon or the newer FM200 to work properly.

 

[obthomas]

Halon might stop the engine if it were idling. At higher RPMs the halon just slows the engine down until its gone then the engine speeds up again.

 

[eyschulman]

lost your power and no portable VHF? The answer The CG is now encouraging the use of cell phones as a back up marine communication. Google CG mobile APP and get your free down load some cool buttons with all sorts of marine information and services including a emergency button that connects to the nearest CG station. Why a guest or wify who is not happy with VHF can easily use it and it works in the dinghy. You can use the float plan function or the safety equipment button or rules of the road -state rules Noaa buoys -report hazards or pollution or request a safety check and lots more and its free.

 

[caltexflanc]

lost your power and no portable VHF? The answer The CG is now encouraging the use of cell phones as a back up marine communication. Google CG mobile APP and get your free down load some cool buttons with all sorts of marine information and services including a emergency button that connects to the nearest CG station. Why a guest or wify who is not happy with VHF can easily use it and it works in the dinghy. You can use the float plan function or the safety equipment button or rules of the road -state rules Noaa buoys -report hazards or pollution or request a safety check and lots more and its free.

If you are in cell phone range.

 

[caltexflanc]

Like improper sizing, poor maintenance, discharged and never replaced...etc


Come on I know you are just busting my chops...any experienced boat owner knows why systems fail to perform...maybe that's the main reason why the 2 companies I dealt with said no discount for auto fire suppression for a diesel boat.


I have been thinking of installing a system...expecting the insurance company to give a discount but the answer was no...based on my experience...it's 50/50 whether they are really worth it.


Based on BoatUS data...they are pretty far down the list to worry about.


Also from my experience..if you HAVE a system aboard both the surveyors and insurance companies expect it to be fully operational...because the owner is supposedly counting on it...so yes they will make sure that it is up to compliance.


No system...no deficiency tags...

I see, so a crap boat leads to a burnt boat. Let's throw in no maintenance or testing of bilge pumps while we are at it. Now about those handhelds you are sending some human being into an ER with, how are they doing, maintenance wise? I'm busting your chops because you are seriously FOS here, and making excuses for people to rationalize having an unsafe boat. Playing fast and loose with impressionable newbies lives now, are we?

 

[psneeld]

The biggest advantage to a cel phone call over a radio call can be you are talking right to an operations specialist instead of a radio operator.


Not always that big of a deal, but I have seen where it does have its advantages.


But a radio does allow other boats nearby to respond.

 

[psneeld]

I see, so a crap boat leads to a burnt boat. Let's throw in no maintenance or testing of bilge pumps while we are at it. Now about those handhelds you are sending some human being into an ER with, how are they doing, maintenance wise? I'm busting your chops because you are seriously FOS here, and making excuses for people to rationalize having an unsafe boat. Playing fast and loose with impressionable newbies lives now, are we?

FOS...maybe..but at the low end of the spectrum around here.

Not rationalizing anything more than what insurance types seem to imply to me...they insure on what are the expected risks are from the general population..not the top end like a few here like to boast they are.


My point wasn't anything more than why several insurance companies I have dealt with and others have indicated why there might not be any or much of a discount in having an installed auto fire system. Not a judgment issue...just why something might or might not be considered.


They know the average boat maintenance is less than stellar.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

The reality is you may only have seconds to subdue the fire. Sounding a general alarm is fine. But if you're short handed and you're going to round up people, get them in life jackets, fiddle with your VHF, etc., etc. before you even go to look at the fire, you might as well not even bother going to look at it and just bail out.

 

[Al]

Just want to remind everybody the CG is now sanctioning and encouraging cell phone use as a back up to VHF. In doing so a free very useful CG APP for your cell phone is available and I have been handing out pamphlet's all weekend at the Seattle boat show regarding this app. Aside from a emergency connect to the CG there are cool buttons for other CG related information and services. You can Google the CG APP to find out more and down load. So if you don't have a portable VHF use the cell phone app.

Need clarification or direction. The CG APP I brought up is for Android and further checking did not bring up the app for iPhone. Any help? This is a great app and I would download in a heartbeat.

Al-Marben 27'Pocket CRUISER

 

[rochepoint]

Need clarification or direction. The CG APP I brought up is for Android and further checking did not bring up the app for iPhone. Any help? This is a great app and I would download in a heartbeat.

Al-Marben 27'Pocket CRUISER

Is this the app you are looking for at iTunes...USCG app.

 

[Al]

Yep!!! I knew a soul would save my bacon on this. Will have my 'Wizards"(Grandchildren download for me.