Electronics networking, NEMA or other?

[stevemitchell]

Having spent most of my life working on computers and marine electronics, I can say that choosing what works for you is about as unique as the way you like your coffee, the type of alcohol you prefer, what type of car/truck you like/drive, or whether you prefer Mac or PC. I could go on and on....

When I work with clients, I find that the reasons and choices are driven mostly by a matrix of facts/needs/wants that have varying weights, and partially based on preferences. It is very hard to try to make those decisions without a lot of back and forth.

I find the most effective way is to write up a list of things that will help point you in one direction or another. Include things like:

What must it do all the time?
What conditions am I operating in?
What would be nice to have?
What sort of data do I need to see and when?
Do things change when I am at anchor or underway? What about docking?
How much power do I have to work with?
A list of all things you want to interface with it (this is one of the critical items)

I find making a nice big list of all of the different use cases, things that connect, and how you want to use it helps flesh out areas you might not have considered. Once you have the list, usually it filters things down to one or two brands, or in rarer cases, one or two models.

I use both MFDs and PC/Macs everywhere on my boat. I have 6 MFDs currently running from all the major brands, and at least 5 PCs and 2 Macs of varying types. While the software for the PC/Mac side has gotten very good, I would never trust one in an exposed helm station regardless of the treatment. That is the one main reason to still consider an MFD in my mind.

I personally prefer the Furuno TZT2 series because of how reliable and performant it is, but again, this is very focused around personal preference. Almost all of the major brands will do 90% of what most people need.

 

[PNW Drifter]

I'm(re)building a 30' boat here:

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s25/farrell-trawler-rebuild-project-40220-12.html#post776144

I'm not going to provide advice, but I'll tell you what I'm doing.

I have an older Garmin 421s (chart plotter + sounder) that will be backup only for navigation + depth.

So, whenever I travel I always have my iPhone and my iPad.

I'll use an iPad for navigation (pick your favourite software). I'll also use the iPad for radar - Furuno 1st Watch wireless radar. I'll also use the iPad for the Raymarine WiFish wireless sonar.

Ipad will display my primary concern, and the iPhone will display my secondary concern.

If radar and navigation are my main two concerns, I still have the Garmin for sonar.

Instead of networking, I'll get a radio with built in GPS. In fact, I'm thinking of going all out and getting the Standard Horizon GX6500. This gives you full class B AIS as well as DSC, and you don't have to network anything.

There is no one right way, and pros and cons to everything, but hopefully the other posts here plus mine will give you some ideas as to what will work best for you.

 

[SoWhat]

I am a techie. Comfortable tearing into anything electronic or mechanical. I recently upgraded all electronics. I ended up with Raymarine for ease of integration. Radio is ICom. I'm not thrilled about all the proprietary junk every vendor adds to their nema 2000 implementation but nothing I can do about it.

I have 2 7" mfd's at the helm station. One for charts, one for radar. Offers redundancy and if radar is off I can use 2nd mfd for depth or zoomed chart. I consider radar mandatory. If you are offshore and a fog bank rolls in you are in for a very tense ride if blind. AIS is not a substitute.

I use my iPad constantly for navigation but wouldn't rely on it as my only system. Not a fan of OpenCPN. Friend of mine is always tweaking it. I just want to push the on/off button. I'm not a fan of the latest and greatest. I stick with a generation behind if possible. No desire to be a beta tester for a manufacturer. Get the bugs out, then I'll buy it.

Gauges with alarms are fine. If mfd goes down I still have info, I'd rather have depth info, and I'm used to scanning instruments. Low tech works. If I did it again with unlimited time and funds, I would do the same thing.

 

[rgano]

Here is a pic of my 30-footer's console, which might be of small assistance in your considerations since it is a bit closer in size to your projected new-build. There are 21 items on this console, aside from the row of Carling switches below, and I have added or replaced 10 of them since I bought the boat four years ago - I think I have it right for me now. The Fogmate is invisible behind the console, making my count eleven items.

It was a funny thing that switches for the hardly used hardtop lights were up high on the right side under the AP control while the vitally important windshield wiper switches were down between my knees under the wheel. They got swapped when I added the windshield washer bottle (red button on right side of wheel).

Unlike my 1972 trawler with all of its various accrued brands for AP, radar, sounder, and AIS, the heart of this nav system is an old Furuno VX2 system with sounder, compass, AP, AIS, GPS, and radar modules/antennas feeding the amply sized 10-inch MFD. My favorite display on it is the radar overlay with AIS fed in on one side of the screen and any other thing like depth display or track data I might want to put on the other side. It has video capability, but I have not seen the need for any video yet. For this boat (NOT for my trawler, though), I very much like the integrated system (minus engine monitoring) because of the limited real estate. If I were building this boat, based on experience installing NMEA 200 in several other boats, that's what I would us.

Had some Garmin on the trawler; have installed lots of Garmin elsewhere; hate Garmin; Furuno and its support for old stuff and old part availability (I now have spare mfd/plotter, AP, and compass) rocks my world.

The Faria cluster gauge failed in two functions and was replaced. I like analog gauges, but fuel, volts, oil pressure, and coolant temp was all it shows; so the after market sound and light alarm panel showing the actual cause (oil press, gear oil, coolant level, coolant temp, exhaust temp, and water in fuel) of the single piezo alarm was added. I guess a NMEA relayed version of this with analog looking gauges and maybe some color coded changes as conditions worsened would be kewl to have and maybe take less space, just not as part of the single MFD. Let's face it, I bet most adverse engine conditions are first noticed when an alarm goes off rather than when the operator catches a gauge twitch. Just look at how the automotive industry has all but deleted gauges in many models.

Faria tach sucked, and I need accurate tach info on this planing boat! The Floscan with its digital tach to stbd of the wheel is a wonder thing, for lots of reasons. Nuff said!

On long trips, I pack a 13-inch laptop with Coastal Explorer which I can use to load routes into the Furuno which is difficult to use as a planner. I see from your comments, you are proficient here and will carry as appropriate.

I suppose you will have a hydraulic steering system. I found that adding an AP to a cable drive system took a bit ore doing than simply plumbing into an existing hydro. Remember, friends don't let friends go cruising without AP.

And remember, AIS, AP, charts and GPS do NOT IN ANY WAY substitute for a radar. Thus speaks the old gray headed naval officer and merchant mariner with decades of time with his head stuck into a radar repeater hood. You only need one for a few miles, but the stuff in those few miles and sometimes yards needs to be seen.

Love the new wireless spotlight control at upper left cuz there was no easy wiring to the new light at the bow (boat had NO light to start with), but since you are building new, you can have wired control. I have a remote for this which the copilot, when I have her aboard, can operate for me while sitting out of my way in her copilot chair.

 

[CEC]

I have both 0183 and 2000 on two boats. Using a converter from 0183 to 2000 is plug and play. 2000 and SeaTalkNG on everything would be ideal, but I have some older nice electronics that I like. SeaTalkNG is real convenient from a connection and wiring standpoint with the power and 2000 combined in one cable. It takes the converted 0183 without issue.


One thing Ill add is wireless options. I use the RayControl app a lot on my boats its really nice to have an iPad connected and it can follow you around on the boat as needed. In my case I have a newer A98 on the FB and older 120 at the helm. I use the iPad for downvision, and as a second plotter at the helm 100% of the time, and the iPad can connect to my flat screen TV for a huge view. I use the wifi on my phone as well with the RayApp. I'm using the wifi way more then I expected, but I do fish a lot of the time. Having the fish finder/chart screen in my pocket comes in very handy when drifting.

 

[ben2go]

Having spent most of my life working on computers and marine electronics, I can say that choosing what works for you is about as unique as the way you like your coffee, the type of alcohol you prefer, what type of car/truck you like/drive, or whether you prefer Mac or PC. I could go on and on....

When I work with clients, I find that the reasons and choices are driven mostly by a matrix of facts/needs/wants that have varying weights, and partially based on preferences. It is very hard to try to make those decisions without a lot of back and forth.

I find the most effective way is to write up a list of things that will help point you in one direction or another. Include things like:

What must it do all the time?
What conditions am I operating in?
What would be nice to have?
What sort of data do I need to see and when?
Do things change when I am at anchor or underway? What about docking?
How much power do I have to work with?
A list of all things you want to interface with it (this is one of the critical items)

I find making a nice big list of all of the different use cases, things that connect, and how you want to use it helps flesh out areas you might not have considered. Once you have the list, usually it filters things down to one or two brands, or in rarer cases, one or two models.

I use both MFDs and PC/Macs everywhere on my boat. I have 6 MFDs currently running from all the major brands, and at least 5 PCs and 2 Macs of varying types. While the software for the PC/Mac side has gotten very good, I would never trust one in an exposed helm station regardless of the treatment. That is the one main reason to still consider an MFD in my mind.

I personally prefer the Furuno TZT2 series because of how reliable and performant it is, but again, this is very focused around personal preference. Almost all of the major brands will do 90% of what most people need.

We're thinking a little bit alike here. I am listing things under the want, need, nice to have, and if I ever strike it rich categories. One is lifting my boat out of the water and sliding a Naught Norddy in her place. :lol:

I keep bouncing around on radar and depth sounding. I don't plan to travel in heavy weather. Doing the Great Loop, it may not be a big deal to go without it. Moving to the PNW, I'll have it for sure. Depth sounding is a must, but do I really need to see fine bottom details? Then I think about losing an anchor and using sonar to find it and retrive it.

My biggest help is the book I bought, Nigel Calder's "Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual, 4th Edition". I look up stuff in it, read, and reread until my eyes and brain hurts. I know home, industrial, and auto electrical pretty well. Marine electrical is a whole other animal.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/007179033...53b1430fd6c064178ac633e6593ce6&language=en_US

I'm(re)building a 30' boat here:

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s25/farrell-trawler-rebuild-project-40220-12.html#post776144

I'm not going to provide advice, but I'll tell you what I'm doing.

I have an older Garmin 421s (chart plotter + sounder) that will be backup only for navigation + depth.

So, whenever I travel I always have my iPhone and my iPad.

I'll use an iPad for navigation (pick your favourite software). I'll also use the iPad for radar - Furuno 1st Watch wireless radar. I'll also use the iPad for the Raymarine WiFish wireless sonar.

Ipad will display my primary concern, and the iPhone will display my secondary concern.

If radar and navigation are my main two concerns, I still have the Garmin for sonar.

Instead of networking, I'll get a radio with built in GPS. In fact, I'm thinking of going all out and getting the Standard Horizon GX6500. This gives you full class B AIS as well as DSC, and you don't have to network anything.

There is no one right way, and pros and cons to everything, but hopefully the other posts here plus mine will give you some ideas as to what will work best for you.

Thanks for chiming in. I'm following your build. I don't comment much but I am enjoying learning more by watching what you're doing with your build. I'm planning hydro steering so I may be interrogating you about your set up.

Here is a pic of my 30-footer's console, which might be of small assistance in your considerations since it is a bit closer in size to your projected new-build. There are 21 items on this console, aside from the row of Carling switches below, and I have added or replaced 10 of them since I bought the boat four years ago - I think I have it right for me now. The Fogmate is invisible behind the console, making my count eleven items.

It was a funny thing that switches for the hardly used hardtop lights were up high on the right side under the AP control while the vitally important windshield wiper switches were down between my knees under the wheel. They got swapped when I added the windshield washer bottle (red button on right side of wheel).

Unlike my 1972 trawler with all of its various accrued brands for AP, radar, sounder, and AIS, the heart of this nav system is an old Furuno VX2 system with sounder, compass, AP, AIS, GPS, and radar modules/antennas feeding the amply sized 10-inch MFD. My favorite display on it is the radar overlay with AIS fed in on one side of the screen and any other thing like depth display or track data I might want to put on the other side. It has video capability, but I have not seen the need for any video yet. For this boat (NOT for my trawler, though), I very much like the integrated system (minus engine monitoring) because of the limited real estate. If I were building this boat, based on experience installing NMEA 200 in several other boats, that's what I would us.

Had some Garmin on the trawler; have installed lots of Garmin elsewhere; hate Garmin; Furuno and its support for old stuff and old part availability (I now have spare mfd/plotter, AP, and compass) rocks my world.

The Faria cluster gauge failed in two functions and was replaced. I like analog gauges, but fuel, volts, oil pressure, and coolant temp was all it shows; so the after market sound and light alarm panel showing the actual cause (oil press, gear oil, coolant level, coolant temp, exhaust temp, and water in fuel) of the single piezo alarm was added. I guess a NMEA relayed version of this with analog looking gauges and maybe some color coded changes as conditions worsened would be kewl to have and maybe take less space, just not as part of the single MFD. Let's face it, I bet most adverse engine conditions are first noticed when an alarm goes off rather than when the operator catches a gauge twitch. Just look at how the automotive industry has all but deleted gauges in many models.

Faria tach sucked, and I need accurate tach info on this planing boat! The Floscan with its digital tach to stbd of the wheel is a wonder thing, for lots of reasons. Nuff said!

On long trips, I pack a 13-inch laptop with Coastal Explorer which I can use to load routes into the Furuno which is difficult to use as a planner. I see from your comments, you are proficient here and will carry as appropriate.

I suppose you will have a hydraulic steering system. I found that adding an AP to a cable drive system took a bit ore doing than simply plumbing into an existing hydro. Remember, friends don't let friends go cruising without AP.

And remember, AIS, AP, charts and GPS do NOT IN ANY WAY substitute for a radar. Thus speaks the old gray headed naval officer and merchant mariner with decades of time with his head stuck into a radar repeater hood. You only need one for a few miles, but the stuff in those few miles and sometimes yards needs to be seen.

Love the new wireless spotlight control at upper left cuz there was no easy wiring to the new light at the bow (boat had NO light to start with), but since you are building new, you can have wired control. I have a remote for this which the copilot, when I have her aboard, can operate for me while sitting out of my way in her copilot chair.

You bring up a lot of good points. Auto pilot is happening. I need to figure out my needs versus wants because that one system can get expensive quickly. I've never used an AP enough to know. My friend had one and it was as simple as get out and set it. I never learned much about properly using it. I will have hydraulic steering. I'm hoping to set it up to have the option of an emergency back up tiller.

Spot light was going to be a manual through the roof or cabin side set up. Wipers, is another consideration. I'm planning proper saftey glass and had considered just using a coating to help shead rain, until I remembered a recent issue I had with my car. Gonna be tossing on a couple nice water whippers.

I plan a tablet or PC for back up navigation along with charts to supplement the chart plotter. I do like the idea of an app that displays everything, navigation wise, to my phone.

The pic is a good one. It looks like a busy helm, but taking a good look over, everything seems pretty clear.

Thanks.

I have both 0183 and 2000 on two boats. Using a converter from 0183 to 2000 is plug and play. 2000 and SeaTalkNG on everything would be ideal, but I have some older nice electronics that I like. SeaTalkNG is real convenient from a connection and wiring standpoint with the power and 2000 combined in one cable. It takes the converted 0183 without issue.


One thing Ill add is wireless options. I use the RayControl app a lot on my boats its really nice to have an iPad connected and it can follow you around on the boat as needed. In my case I have a newer A98 on the FB and older 120 at the helm. I use the iPad for downvision, and as a second plotter at the helm 100% of the time, and the iPad can connect to my flat screen TV for a huge view. I use the wifi on my phone as well with the RayApp. I'm using the wifi way more then I expected, but I do fish a lot of the time. Having the fish finder/chart screen in my pocket comes in very handy when drifting.

Good points there. I haven't fully settled on 2000, 0183, or stand alone systems. I do like the idea of having everything available on a tablet or laptop. I'm kind of leaning toward one suggestion of buying older, last years edition, equipment at a discount. Get a feel for the boat and electronics, then upgrade, if I want.

 

[Scratchnsaw]

I am a simple guy. Electronic stuff is kept to a minimum. A radar for a small pleasure boat is really not worth the expense and killer of space. I think we had this discussion when I was traveling a bit with the boat.

With my small cruiser and outboard I use the 2000 linked to my small garmin. Its good for checking and logging fuel burn across a wide range of rpms, engine hours, voltage and even trim for the most efficient speed with the fuel burn.

It will also assist you in keeping track of fuel tank amounts if you do several day trips and you are not filling your tanks every time. Of course this is backed up by manual fuel tank gauges for reference in my case.

As it relates to additional electronics, I would purchase the simplest fish finder in addition to the garmin for back up. I like to always know my depth in unfamiliar places. So if the garmin quits, its possible to have that backup piece.

I also like that type for day trips in similar or homeport regions. With the garmin and you use plotter lines and repeated trips, your chart portion of the units if you are using plotter lines gets painted up quite a bit. Yes you can delete them. But I like to keep the most remote region's lines for reference for the future.


By the way I am going to sell my hull. Wife's health issues have caused us to stop some of the longer boat trips, if you are interested, priced right.

 

[wkearney99]

A radar for a small pleasure boat is really not worth the expense and killer of space.

Most modern chart plotters are able to integrate radar with nothing separate. So finding one that has good charts and the option to add radar is certainly something to consider. Some vendors still sell basic 'fish finders' that don't have any upgrade or integration options. For small fishing boats that's still a somewhat viable option. But, honestly, with what most modern chart plotters can provide it's worth considering them. Don't let an inexpensive purchase at the start leave you stuck with no upgrade options.

 

[Codger2]

Some vendors still sell basic 'fish finders' that don't have any upgrade or integration options..... But, honestly, with what most modern chart plotters can provide it's worth considering them. Don't let an inexpensive purchase at the start leave you stuck with no upgrade options.

Damn good advice!

 

[ben2go]

Damn good advice!

 

[Scratchnsaw]

Most modern chart plotters are able to integrate radar with nothing separate. So finding one that has good charts and the option to add radar is certainly something to consider. Some vendors still sell basic 'fish finders' that don't have any upgrade or integration options. For small fishing boats that's still a somewhat viable option. But, honestly, with what most modern chart plotters can provide it's worth considering them. Don't let an inexpensive purchase at the start leave you stuck with no upgrade options.

The problem with the ongoing advice concerning many issues on this forum is that most boat owners on here have big fiberglass hulls with what appears to be unlimited budgets by comparison to anyone building a simple homebuilt sparsely small craft. This is what this thread is about, warranting my response with a similar build.

Its nice to say buy the ultimate equipment. But when you pay as you go in these type build in order to get a small pleasure craft on the water, there are limits. We put our money in the more important things like quality materials, something that most of the members here have no clue about by comparison.

 

[Aquabelle]

The problem with the ongoing advice concerning many issues on this forum is that most boat owners on here have big fiberglass hulls with what appears to be unlimited budgets by comparison to anyone building a simple homebuilt sparsely small craft. This is what this thread is about, warranting my response with a similar build.

Its nice to say buy the ultimate equipment. But when you pay as you go in these type build in order to get a small pleasure craft on the water, there are limits. We put our money in the more important things like quality materials, something that most of the members here have no clue about by comparison.

I think it is worth noting that buying 2nd hand gear should be considered. For example Furuno NN3D series, which was state of the art when released and which accepts both N0183 and N2000 instrument and even translates and exports each to the other (something lost in newer models) is available very inexpensively on eBay. Furuno quality and parts and support will be available for literally decades, Furuno being Furuno. NN3D MFD12 would be a great solution for the OP.

 

[SeaMaster101]

All good things to consider.

I would be limited to one large display or possibly two smaller displays stacked. I'm not sure I would need radar because of the boat size. I won't be out in fog or rough water. The boat design I'm leaning toward is an offshore capable design for rough water. I will be close enough to shore to catch the weather on TV and weather radio. Hopefully close enough to check in with Windy or one of the other marine weather sites/apps. I'm currently leaning toward Garmin as I have had the most experience with their auto, moto, and marine electronics. Mostly smaller fish finder type set ups for lake fishing. I'm not sure I would consider PC. I have been through several the past few years, but I have a tendency to modify my PCs and really overwork the hardware.

I need to contact Beta and find out if using non Beta gauges will affect engine warranty. If so, I would go with NEMA 2000 and connect to the plotter. I'll get full engine instrumentation. The basic gauge package with Beta is a couple of trouble lights and small black dial style gauges to monitor engine temps and RPM, no oil pressure, oil temp, or transmission temp. I believe there may be a voltmeter in the package. I have installed a few sets of Faria gauges. I do like them, especially their classic line.

This is the upgraded Beta gauge cluster. I would like more. NEMA 2000 is the next step up from my understanding.

This one is a wonderful option to upgrade any boat:

it is complete system where one can interface to the existing sensors of old analog engines, setup custom screens and early warnings and alarms, convert the reading to NMEA2000, interface to NMEA200 or NMEA0183 network. Connect to bilge pumps and any other devices on the boat, create rules of when to alarm etc. It' also has something called SmartBus, where on 3 wires one can add many temperature sensors including EGT sensors.

It is great little unit that is the captains eyes and ears. It sees and remembers everything that happens on the boat and will let you know in very understandable way what and when something starts to go wrong.

 

[ben2go]

The problem with the ongoing advice concerning many issues on this forum is that most boat owners on here have big fiberglass hulls with what appears to be unlimited budgets by comparison to anyone building a simple homebuilt sparsely small craft. This is what this thread is about, warranting my response with a similar build.

Its nice to say buy the ultimate equipment. But when you pay as you go in these type build in order to get a small pleasure craft on the water, there are limits. We put our money in the more important things like quality materials, something that most of the members here have no clue about by comparison.

I agree. I'm mostly looking at the stuff one step up from the smaller pleasure craft stuff because I will be living on my boat for several years. being able to add on or upgrade is a feature that appeals to me.

Radar may not be such a big deal on the Loop, but if/when I make it to the PNW, I would like to have radar. I know of people getting stuck for long periods at anchor due to weather. I like to move. Even when I do weekenders, I like to move every day. I probably won't move as much when full timing. Maybe every couple of days unless I'm looking to get somewhere on a schedule.

I think it is worth noting that buying 2nd hand gear should be considered. For example Furuno NN3D series, which was state of the art when released and which accepts both N0183 and N2000 instrument and even translates and exports each to the other (something lost in newer models) is available very inexpensively on eBay. Furuno quality and parts and support will be available for literally decades, Furuno being Furuno. NN3D MFD12 would be a great solution for the OP.

I agree. New offers a warranty and that's really a good thing. If the price is right, and I can trust the seller, I'd buy used.

This one is a wonderful option to upgrade any boat:

it is complete system where one can interface to the existing sensors of old analog engines, setup custom screens and early warnings and alarms, convert the reading to NMEA2000, interface to NMEA200 or NMEA0183 network. Connect to bilge pumps and any other devices on the boat, create rules of when to alarm etc. It' also has something called SmartBus, where on 3 wires one can add many temperature sensors including EGT sensors.

It is great little unit that is the captains eyes and ears. It sees and remembers everything that happens on the boat and will let you know in very understandable way what and when something starts to go wrong.

I looked at something similar. I can't remember the brand right off. It may be an option. I do plan to have a set of analog gauges mounted in a panel on or near the engine. Being a former pilot, I'm all for redundancy.

 

[SeaMaster101]

I agree. I'm mostly looking at the stuff one step up from the smaller pleasure craft stuff because I will be living on my boat for several years. being able to add on or upgrade is a feature that appeals to me.

Radar may not be such a big deal on the Loop, but if/when I make it to the PNW, I would like to have radar. I know of people getting stuck for long periods at anchor due to weather. I like to move. Even when I do weekenders, I like to move every day. I probably won't move as much when full timing. Maybe every couple of days unless I'm looking to get somewhere on a schedule.




I agree. New offers a warranty and that's really a good thing. If the price is right, and I can trust the seller, I'd buy used.




I looked at something similar. I can't remember the brand right off. It may be an option. I do plan to have a set of analog gauges mounted in a panel on or near the engine. Being a former pilot, I'm all for redundancy.

There is the Maretron stuff, but it is a software that runs on computer and needs interface module for each sub-system. This one comes with enough inputs to satisfy every boat from 30' to 60'+.
Here is the link to the manufacturer website with more information about the handy little unit:
6700: Vitals - Vessel System Monitoring & Smart Alarm Device
Cheers!

 

[twistedtree]

There is the Maretron stuff, but it is a software that runs on computer and needs interface module for each sub-system. This one comes with enough inputs to satisfy every boat from 30' to 60'+.
Here is the link to the manufacturer website with more information about the handy little unit:
6700: Vitals - Vessel System Monitoring & Smart Alarm Device
Cheers!

Any idea what the Kobelt device costs? I can't find it anywhere.

 

[ben2go]

There is the Maretron stuff, but it is a software that runs on computer and needs interface module for each sub-system. This one comes with enough inputs to satisfy every boat from 30' to 60'+.
Here is the link to the manufacturer website with more information about the handy little unit:
6700: Vitals - Vessel System Monitoring & Smart Alarm Device
Cheers!

That's a pretty neat little device.

Any idea what the Kobelt device costs? I can't find it anywhere.

I too am curious. I couldn't find pricing anywhere.