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Old 02-20-2015, 10:33 PM   #1
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Electronic suite replacement

First a brief bit of background:

We purchased Moana knowing she had been barely used in a number of years and would need some help along the way out of the "slumber". We've split the work up into 3 winters. This year we are working through issues like reglazing windows, a steering system leak, windlass that won't pull the weight of the anchor, etc... nothing terrible, but basically the important things. Next year we are addressing some cosmetic and non-critical matters. The third winter we are devoting to electronics.

We deferred the electronics to the third year for two reasons. Cost is one. Secondly, we wanted to understand the systems onboard well before we went around willy nilly picking out new electronics. We currently have a Furuno radar and a Simrad plotter btw. The system is a tad slow in responding nor can we interface AIS into it. A new system for us would also incorporate side scan sonar and FLIR. With the issues of interfacing NMEA products from different manufacturers, I'm originally leaning towards selecting one brand and trying to stick with it as much as possible (not that it'll guarantee sucess, ask Twistedtree)

I was recently at a boat show and was impressed with the Garmin line. I'm used to working with them from the aviation side, but not the marine side. Also I realize that the performance I see at a show won't necessarily transpose evenly into a real world scenario.

So I have two main questions.
1. If you were redoing your electronics and getting everything you wanted, what would you do?
2. Any users of latest generation systems from the main manufacturers, how would you recommend or critique the systems?
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:42 PM   #2
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For your kinda boat here's what (I) would do.

So for below helms figure you have two monitors.
Pilot house
First monitor- A TZT black box
Second Monitor- A nav pc running your personal choice of a nav program (I'd go maxsea so you can repeat all the furuno data)
Flybridge
- TZT 14
Peripherals

-DRS6A
-PSU012
-DFF1
-Vesper Marine XB8000
-Maretron WSO-100
-Maretron GPS-200
- How ever many Maretron DSM-150 displays you want.
-Nmea 2000 backbone

Of course tha'ts a rough list you need all the little connectors and bit to connect it all up.

You have a working autopilot and heading sensor right?
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:43 PM   #3
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I have a Furuno TZTBB system with radar and like it so far.

I personally recommended Furuno over garmin as the furuno unit is just plain out a better built quality unit.
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:51 PM   #4
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4712: yes we have a simrad autopilot
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:54 PM   #5
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Alright, so then you'd need a N2k to 0183 for bi-directional data for your equipment too.

Going to see if can find some pictures of my install i did a little while ago.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
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I personally recommended Furuno over garmin as the furuno unit is just plain out a better built quality unit.
Can you prove that?
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:35 PM   #7
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"A new system for us would also incorporate side scan sonar"

Way do you want side scan, fishing?
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:36 PM   #8
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Can you prove that?

Yes, come on down and I'll be happy to show you. The Furuno is way more rugged.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:39 PM   #9
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Yes, come on down and I'll be happy to show you. The Furuno is way more rugged.
Are you going to hit it with a hammer?

Seriously, how can you tell?
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
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I have a Furuno TZTBB system with radar and like it so far.

I personally recommended Furuno over garmin as the furuno unit is just plain out a better built quality unit.
We just installed a complete garmin suite of electronics. It is all very well built from what I can see. It all performs well without any lag. No complaints here. Specifically, we installed radar, sounder, 2 gps map head units, heading sensor, and anemometer/wind direction indicator. Although not installed yet, we also have the autopilot unit from garmin as well. We also used a standard horizon vhf with ais which connected to the garmin gpsmap displays without issue.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:44 PM   #11
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Electronic suite replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Are you going to hit it with a hammer?



Seriously, how can you tell?

The Garmin is 95% plastic, where furuno is 95% metal. Furuno software wise is ten times more in depth then garmin's super simple stupid approach which isn't a Bad thing when in center console boats. Down to cables, a Furuno power cable has 3 layers of shielding where Garmin has tin foil.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:49 PM   #12
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We just installed a complete garmin suite of electronics. It is all very well built from what I can see. It all performs well without any lag. No complaints here. Specifically, we installed radar, sounder, 2 gps map head units, heading sensor, and anemometer/wind direction indicator. Although not installed yet, we also have the autopilot unit from garmin as well. We also used a standard horizon vhf with ais which connected to the garmin gpsmap displays without issue.

I have no problems with Garmin, I have two on my boat and love them. They work perfect for what I put them in for. But when compared to Furuno there is no competition, you can instantly tell the quality difference and how more thought out they are (software wise).
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:50 PM   #13
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"A new system for us would also incorporate side scan sonar"

Way do you want side scan, fishing?
more for comfort in shallow areas.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:59 PM   #14
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But none of that necessarily translates into one being more long lasting or trouble free than the other. Don't get me wrong, I like Furunos stuff. But if both systems perform trouble free for years, which I've seen both do, what a unit is made of and how heavy it is could be meaningless in predicting its longevity.

It's not like this stuff is getting hit by hammers, EMPs or getting left out in the rain day after day. The TZTBB is after all a black box that gets mounted in a dry secure location. And added shielding may be nice to have but if it's unnecessary it just adds to the cost.
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:02 AM   #15
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more for comfort in shallow areas.
It will be interesting to see how well it works in shallow water. We are putting it on the boat I'm currently running even now. I'm not sure what use it will be when the bottom is close to the keel.
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:02 AM   #16
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But none of that necessarily translates into one being more long lasting or trouble free than the other. Don't get me wrong, I like Furunos stuff. But if both systems perform trouble free for years, which I've seen both do, what a unit is made of and how heavy it is could be meaningless in predicting its longevity.



It's not like this stuff is getting hit by hammers, EMPs or getting left out in the rain day after day. The TZTBB is after all a black box that gets mounted in a dry secure location. And added shielding may be nice to have but if it's unnecessary it just adds to the cost.

Bigger heat sinks and more heat chances for heat dissipation doesn't affect longevity?

Take a look at a TZT14 and BB they are identical on the back end. Furuno just added a display, and roto key. The TZT9 is a mini TZTBB/14.
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:20 AM   #17
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Bigger heat sinks and more heat chances for heat dissipation doesn't affect longevity?
.
Only if it's needed for that particular unit. Just because the Furuno units have or need bigger heat sinks doesn't mean the Garmin units could use bigger ones. They mostly likely have no need for them. Nor, taken on face value, does one unit having bigger heat sinks than the other help in predicting either units longevity.
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:27 AM   #18
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I too looked at all the equipment. Maybe I am a simpleton or my salesman sucked, but the garmin units seem to do everything i would need and probably more.
I didnt see any advantage of metal over plastic. The garmin plastic housings seemed quite rugged although i admit i didn't try running them over with my truck in the parking lot.
Furthermore, all the equipment you can buy today (like most electronics) will likely be worthless long before it stops working. In fact, the existing units i removed from my boat were 2 working 10 inch gps units (plastic garmins) that were installed in 2003 or so.
I will also add that, IIRC, I saved quite a few boat bucks by buying garmin over furuno.
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:51 AM   #19
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I too looked at all the equipment. Maybe I am a simpleton or my salesman sucked, but the garmin units seem to do everything i would need and probably more.
I didnt see any advantage of metal over plastic. The garmin plastic housings seemed quite rugged although i admit i didn't try running them over with my truck in the parking lot.
Furthermore, all the equipment you can buy today (like most electronics) will likely be worthless long before it stops working. In fact, the existing units i removed from my boat were 2 working 10 inch gps units (plastic garmins) that were installed in 2003 or so.
I will also add that, IIRC, I saved quite a few boat bucks by buying garmin over furuno.

The Garmin's are great to an extent, I've found Garmin to be very proprietary in some of their things like autopilots. You're forced to Ouse their heading sensor and pump. Also if you have multiple heading sensors you don't have the ability to choose which one you want, source selection and stuff like that is what bugs me about them. Also their proprietary charts, I love them for my area as they are based off very reputable charts (bahamas- explorer charts) ,but once we start cruising around in far destinations Garmin doesn't have charts for these places. So now what? Oh go get one that does.

I've also noted Garmin hardware getting kind of chinsey like the the type of connectors they have started using, and also it seems every time I pull the dust cover off my machines the bezel wants to come off with it. Little stuff like that bothers me too.

Of course you saved a lot because you were in Garmins target market.
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Old 02-21-2015, 01:45 AM   #20
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I don't have anything against the Garmin stuff but I've had really good success out of my Furuno Navnet Vx2 gear.

And, Yes it will interface with a simard autopilot, and with whatever brand of AIS you want, etc...
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